Talk:William Pickering (footballer)

Requested move 15 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus, although I find the arguments of the opposers stronger in terms of the fact that Bill/William is probably sufficient disambiguation. Number 57 13:58, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

---

William Pickering (footballer) → William Pickering (Scottish footballer) – there's another William Pickering who's a footballer with an article, Bill Pickering who's English. --Relisted. Andrewa (talk) 16:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC) -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 05:17, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. – Michael (talk) 21:03, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support I am the nominator -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 06:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - unneccesary disambiguation, hatnote between the two will suffice. GiantSnowman 13:23, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
  • It fails WP:PRECISE so it is not unneccessary, and neither of them is the primary topic, so the primary topic exemption does not apply since William Pickering isn't about either of them. There are two articles on two people called "William Pickering" who are both British footballers; one English and one Scottish. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 05:31, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
    • And one of them is commonly referred to as "Bill Pickering" so yes disambiguation is unnecessary. – Michael (talk) 07:57, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
      • Nevertheless, his name is "William Pickering", so is ambiguous, thus necessary. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 23:33, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
        • It doesn't matter if his name is "William Pickering". "Bill Pickering" is his common name, thus unnecessary disambiguation. – Michael (talk) 21:12, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
          • It doesn't matter if "Bill Pickering" is the Englishman's common name, we aren't discussing his article's title, we're discussing the Scot's article title. The Scot's article name is ambiguous with anyone named "William Pickering" who is a footballer, such as Bill Pickering, who is also called "William Pickering" and who is also a footballer. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 04:40, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

• You don't understand where I'm going with this do you? Is "William Pickering" the actual legal name of both footballers? Yes. Are they both commonly referred to as "William Pickering"? No. If the Englishman was commonly referred to as "William", then maybe I would've considered supporting the request. But again, he's referred to as "Bill Pickering". So as far as I'm concerned, the article title about the Scottish footballer should be left as it is. – Michael (talk) 06:21, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
  • This article is not the primary topic of "William Pickering" so it necessarily requires sufficient disambiguatory terms to distinguish it from all other topics that can be called "William Pickering" which exist on Wikipedia, per WP:PRECISE. This includes all other people who are named "William Pickering" who are footballers. Bill Pickering is considered the primary topic of "Bill Pickering", thus does not need additional disambiguation. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 08:07, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Neither does this article. And I never said this was the primary topic. – Michael (talk) 08:28, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support - ambiguous disambiguation In ictu oculi (talk) 16:55, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - per GiantSnowman. – Michael (talk) 18:55, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. Burnley is not in Scotland. He was an English footballer, in terms of leagues played. DrKiernan (talk) 12:45, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
• Support a clear case of WP:PRECISE (or lack thereof), and WP:PARTIALDAB. The current title refers to both players, and neither is primary for the topic, so the current title should be a redirect to William Pickering, with the separate articles at "William Pickering (Scottish footballer)" and "Bill Pickering".  — Amakuru (talk) 10:28, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• Per William Pickering (English footballer) -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 12:27, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Relisting comment: This raises an important issue that has been raised in many other recent RMs, particularly with respect to record album names. To what extent does a disambiguator itself need to be unambiguous? How if at all are the primary topic tests to be applied to disambiguators themselves? The guidelines don't seem to be clear enough on this point. I'll expand on this later when I have time, meantime relisting in the hope that we'll get a better consensus here, and perhaps even some thoughts on a tweak to the guidelines, one way or another. Andrewa (talk) 16:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Dubious

There's only one William Pickering killed in World War I on 9 November 1917, and he was killed in Iraq not France. He is buried in Baghdad.[1] DrKiernan (talk) 10:15, 26 February 2015 (UTC)