Talk:Wilmington station (Delaware)

Disambiguation

There are 3 Wilmington stations which Amtrak passes thru if you include Wilmington MA (on the Downeaster route. KevinCuddeback 03:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

The station is primarily Amtrak. Why did you change its name to Septa? It should be changed back.

Amtrak also stops in Wilmington, North Carolina. SEPTA only stops at one Wilmington. --SPUI (talk) 04:27, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

According to the Amtrak National Timetable, and supported by the Wilmington, North Carolina article linked to above, the only Amtrak presence in Wilmington, NC is a Thruway motorcoach connection. I support renaming this back to (Amtrak station). Amtrak should be given precedence at its stations (this includes Metropark, Princeton Junction, Newark Airport, and Route 128, and I'll be moving those in the next day or so unless I hear a reason to dispute this.) --CComMack 06:15, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• How about the fact that the bulk of service at Metropark, Princeton Junction, and Newark International Airport are by NJ Transit trains? (I don't know Route 128, but I think its in Connecticut and a Metro-North New Haven line thing). And if you're going to nail down Amtrak as the train line that is given precedence and lorded over all others, I suppose I should let you pre-empt the article-to-come dealing with the New Brunswick Station (NJ) after all, Amtrak stops there 12 times a day and deserves precedence over NJ Transit's almost 100 stops (which is—for your edification—roughly the same number for Metropark and Princeton Junction which were built with NJT funds and USDOT grants, not by Amtrak funds). Last I rode the Clocker between NYC and Philly and back I don't recall stopping at the airport, just at Newark Penn (only most Regional trains stop there, and an occasional Keystone...the Metroliner, Acela, Silver Meteor, Three Rivers, Vermonter, Carolinian, Palmetto, most Keystone, and Silver Star trains don't). —ExplorerCDT 07:25, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • I suggest the simple convention that if more than one train service shares tracks (not the station, so PATH and the city subway don't count at Newark Penn Station), and there's no common name that's not just [City] Station, the most local service should be used. Slight problems occur with stuff like Trenton which both SEPTA and NJ Transit serve; those may have to be arbitrary (probably NJ Transit in this case because it's in NJ). This keeps us from having to move pages whenever Amtrak starts or stops using a station, which may start happening fairly frequently if service cuts are made; on the other hand standard commuter services seem harder to get rid of. Obviously City (Amtrak station) would redirect. --SPUI (talk) 07:40, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This seems like a confusing policy. As you point out, multiple commuter agencies create several places where there is no single name that your suggestion resolves to (in addition to Trenton, you have clear problems at Stamford and Bridgeport, and the same situation exists at Washington, 30th St Philadelphia, Penn Station New York, and both New Haven stations.) Giving Amtrak precedence has the decided advantage of being perfectly consistent if it is consistently applied.

Amtrak is the national system, and has the widest recognizability. I think these should be given significant weight, but this is in fact a wider issue with ramifications on a ddozen articles. I suggest moving the discussion to more appropriate ground; perhaps revive Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (stations)? --CComMack 08:16, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Union Station (Washington), 30th Street Station, New York Penn Station, Union Station (New Haven), etc all stay where they are because they have special names. I'd somewhat but not completely arbitrarily assign the MN/SLE conflicts to Metro-North; they are the more established system and the less likely of the two to go under. Yeah, I'd also recommend moving this to Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (stations). As a data point, for the New York City Subway the standard has become Name (Division Line station), for instance 125th Street (IRT Lexington Avenue Line station). This however is a somewhat special case, as many stations share names. --SPUI (talk) 08:24, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I know that none of the existing articles should be touched, and fully agree that Stamford and Bridgeport are MTA/MNR/MNCR more than they are SLE, on grounds of service territory. I'm just saying that your proposed convention doesn't/wouldn't cover them. And there's still Trenton to deal with. I just don't want arbitrariness where it isn't neccessary.

I'm also familiar with the NYC subway convention, but doubt there's a way to apply the convention here. Although it makes dealing with defunct stations/railroads much easier (for instance, Philadelphia Broad Street Station (PRR).) --CComMack 08:41, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

SPUI reason above is specificaly why we Should Not add or have services put to the names of stations. The whole what if situation, what if the local service is dropd and Amtrak contunes to serve, not likely to happen but it could. And what would happen if the said station were to have service droped all together, would we call it XXX Station (no service). And where does this lead us with historic stations that are not useed for rail serivce no more, the (no service) tag their as well?. --Boothy443 | comhrÚ 08:03, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Agree, Boothy, that system names should be omitted except when truly necessary for disambig purposes. I, however, dislike the "City Rail Station" construction. I would much prefer "City station" to be the default. "Wilmington station" should be enough to uniquely identify the subject of this article. --CComMack 08:16, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

We'd call it [[[XXX (last operator station)]]. --SPUI (talk) 08:25, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[[User:CComMack|CComMack] I concur with you idea on the "City station" idea, the only reason i add rail to it is as a point of clairty, some cities have a xxx station as a district in them, but i'll sgree that that should be used in situations which warrent it. After looking at many of the British Rail articles, i.e Liverpool Street station (where like in many rail stations in the UK multiple service are present), or Connolly Station in Ireland, the city station thing would be better. The only addation i could see to the "City station" would be the addation of a state in the cases of multipile cities sharing the same name and have a rail station, not rail service as some cities have "service" via throughway bus, in the "City station (State)" format. Or in with cities sharing common station name, i.e. Union Station, we use the "Station name (City)" format. --Boothy443 | comhrÚ 08:36, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Page Move (2005)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I believe that the title of the article is misleading, I propose that the name of this article be moved to the the above listed name or to a similar name for the following reasons:

1. As stated it infers that the station is a SEPTA only station, while SEPTA serves Wilmington, Delaware via it's R2 regional rail service, it is by no means the only rail service to the city, the station is a important stop on the Amtrak northeastern services. Also not all R2 services, the only services of SEPTA that calls on the station, call on Wilmington. Plus SEPTA is not the larger of the of the two services that call on Wilmington, in terms of passengers and number of trains that would have to go to Amtrak.
2. Questions of ownership of station, as inferred from the title one gets the impression that SEPTA owns this station, which is false. Not only is it false it's impossible, as SEPTA is a Pennsylvania quasi-government chartered company. The station is owned by Amtrak, who along with the station have a network operations and support staff facility on the grounds as well.
3. it would infer that that their is another station in Wilmington in which Amtrak service is provided at. Now reading the article on would not that is not the case, but searching for it on might not get an article synopsis thus leading to confusing, especially to those who are not privy to Septa or the rail system in the United States.

The reason why i don't think that Amtrak station should be added to the title, is for similar reasons as stated above. For more clarification feel free to contact me. --Boothy443 | comhrÚ 06:30, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 17:45, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Trenton Station

The example about Trenton is not valid becaue Trenton Station is owned by NJT. Trenton Station is in NJ. Wilmington Station is not in PA. And Delaware doesn't even have its own state rail company.

Above unsigned is from 68.80.129.105. Please remember to sign your talk page contributions with four tildes, like so: ~~~~ . Even better, create a login name, as you are clearly interested in joining the community and helping out. Welcome!

This entire issue of nomenclature is a larger and thornier one than I think any of us imagined, and we should talk more to work it out. I've detailed a preliminary proposal at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (stations), which I'd like to receive input on (the preexisting standard being preliminary and, IMHO, quite unworkable.) If the main conversation could be moved there (and reignited; it seems to have died down here,) it would probably be for the best, at least until we can come to a preliminary consensus.

Many thanks, CComMack 06:05, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Speaking as probably the only person here who has actually been to this train station, I should say that it's served both my Amtrack and Septa, but primarily it's there for Amtrack traffic. PS - it's in a *horrible* part of town and I wouldn't want to ever be caught there after dark. →Raul654 05:58, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC) Also - they recently changed their name to 'Transit Depot' because it acts as both a bus and railroad station (at least that's what all the signs say). →Raul654 06:06, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

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Rename (2009) this page one more time

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was 'Moved to Wilmington Station. No need for disambiguation, no guideline to include parenthetical info. DMacks (talk) 03:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Wilmington Station (Delaware) → Wilmington (Amtrak station) — I know this has been moved several times in the past, but the current name doesn't follow the current naming conventions for Amtrak stations. Most Amtrak stations that are served by little commuter rail like this one are given the name "X (Amtrak station)". Why not this one? Murjax (talk) 17:34, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Is there a reason to use the disambiguator at all, in this case? ie.: are there any other "Wilmington Stations"? That redirects here, so it certainly doesn't look like it.
  — V = I * R (talk to Ω) 12:54, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

  No, but at the same time there aren't any other Jacksonville (Amtrak station) or Truckee (Amtrak station), yet they both use the disambiguator anyway. The disambiguator tells the main railroad serving it. In the case of Wilmington, although SEPTA serves it, Amtrak serves it more. Murjax (talk) 16:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

  It should be moved to Wilmington station then, in accordance with WP:DAB and WP:TITLE. If the "Amtrack station" is really important to include in the title, then it shouldn't be used as a disambiguator (within the parenthesis). Ultimately though, the inclusion of the operator in the title isn't that important.
  — V = I * R (talk to Ω) 02:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comment. This is called Wilmington Amtrak Station on National Register of Historic Places listings in Wilmington, Delaware. Maybe that is the best name to use. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:35, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

  That point is essentially what I'm getting at, above. Based on the fact that the NRHP uses Wilmington Amtrak Station, I could easily support a move there.
  — V = I * R (talk to Ω) 08:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

It still wouldn't look right as every other Amtrak station article has the words "Amtrak station" in parentheses. Murjax (talk) 15:37, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't see that as an issue. If the building has an accepted name then we use it. I believe that is what the naming convention spells out. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:07, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Just an FYI, the National Register also says "also known as Wilmington Station, ...". So, in essence, we could leave it as is, since it's acknowledged as an official name, and it would cut down on the (admittedly) awkward syntax for Wikipedia's standards of its official name. EaglesFanInTampa 05:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

First off you have to be careful when going by what the National Register has as the station's "official name". Often times it's a name nobody knows it by, such as my local Amtrak station in Palatka, FL. Palatka station is known on the register as "Old Atlantic Coast Line Union Depot". People who use it these days most likely don't even know what the Atlantc Coast Line Railroad was, and simply refer to it as "Palatka station". Now even though the name "Wilmington Station" would work just fine for this article, and for others, it wouldn't work for stations such as Aberdeen, MD and Richmond, VA since there are several other stations around the world with the same name. That's why station articles always have the ("X Railroad" station) after the city's name. Now sure we could simplify some stations such as this one to "Wilmington Station" and only put the "(Amtrak station)" on stations that share names, but it wouldn't look uniform. The way it is right now most stations have fairly uniform station names with the exception of major stations such as Pennsylvania Station (New York). I don't know about you but this seems to work just fine.Murjax (talk) 03:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

• Note: A cut and paste move to Wilmington (Amtrak station) was made on 31 Aug. I've reverted that, pending outcome of this discussion. Station1 (talk) 00:26, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
• Move to Wilmington Amtrak Station or Wilmington Station. Clearly a name that has standing. Station is the only disambiguation needed. No need to state the railroad currently using it. Anyone what to move the rest of those articles that don't need that extra disambiguation? Vegaswikian1 (talk) 04:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
• Move to Wilmington station, which redirects here anyway. Wilmington Amtrak station would also be acceptable. I don't think "station" should be capitalized since it's a descriptor and not really a proper name (correct me if I'm wrong). Bracketed disambiguators should be avoided where possible. Jafeluv (talk) 12:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Except that giving it a name in the registry makes it into a proper noun. The whole thing. 199.125.109.99 (talk) 18:04, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
• Move to Wilmington Station as per the above. Having the same name format as other articles is not a legitimate reason to move if there is a more accurate (the station does not only host Amtrak), more official, more easily found, and, most importantly, more commonly used alternative, as there is in Wilmington Station. This might be different if we had a naming convention that says train stations that host Amtrak should use "(Amtrak station)"... but there are no naming conventions on stations. there is only the precedent of the others; and precedent shouldn't be followed absolutely, as illustrated by the many current legitimate exceptions to the "(Amtrak station)" 'rule'. This is another legitimate exception. -kotra (talk) 22:58, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

(Redirected from Wilmington Rail Viaduct)

Yes, I arrived here from the Wilmington Rail Viaduct link on the List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Delaware, but there is nothing in this article or the talk page about the bridge, or where it is. There is no point in the link, but perhaps someone who knows Wilmington, Delaware will help in correcting this situation. --DThomsen8 (talk) 11:52, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The Wilmington Rail Viaduct actually comprises the entire PB&W (PRR)/Amtrak NEC right-of-way from West Yard through Wilmington to about Landlith/Wilmington Shops; it's not a single bridge. Architecture is varied: toward the west end, there is actually a stretch of brick arch viaduct (I have a photo of this I'll put up on Commons sometime), but much of it rests on fill between stone retaining walls, crossing streets on plate girder bridges (plus a truss bridge over the Brandywine, formerly movable, at the east end). I think all of it is in HAER. I've been planning to write the article at some point. Choess (talk) 18:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, the article has now been written. Choess (talk) 02:54, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move (back to Wilmington name) 2011

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per request.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:47, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

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Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Railroad Station → Wilmington Station – Station is still named "Wilmington Station" and the new page name (to which the article was moved without any form of discussion or consensus) is only the station's dedicated name. The station was not renamed, and according to the official Amtrak press release, "the renovated [Wilmington] station will be dedicated as the Joseph R. Biden, Jr., Railroad Station".[1] Amtrak[2] and SEPTA[3] still refer to it simply as "Wilmington". –Dream out loud (talk) 10:36, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

• Being "dedicated as" usually implies a rename. Also, the Amtrak site doesn't call it "Wilmington Station" either, so that's not evidence either way. Powers ^T 15:02, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
• I prefer either French Street Station or Wilmington (Amtrak/SEPTA station). ----DanTD (talk) 13:11, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

It's not about preference; it's about what is most appropriate. The name French Street Station was used historically and is not used today at all. I don't think Biden or French Street should be used as per WP:COMMONNAME. The press release linked above mentions the dedication to Biden, but still refers to the station as "Wilmington Station" throughout the rest of the document. Adding Amtrak/SEPTA into the title is also not necessary because many Amtrak stations are also served by SEPTA, but as per all other train station naming conventions, you go by the primary service. –Dream out loud (talk) 17:18, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, French Street Station can still be used as a historic redirect. I still like adding the service(s) in the name though. ----DanTD (talk) 02:45, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

French Street station would be fine as a redirect. But adding both SEPTA and Amtrak to the title would go against the naming conventions of all other SEPTA station articles. I don't think Amtrak or SEPTA should be added at the moment. The discussion here as to whether it should remain as Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Railroad Station. Besides, that discussion already took place here.

• Support move to Wilmington Station. Yes, the current title does not meet WP:COMMONNAME. Agree with the other points Dream out loud makes. —GFOLEY FOUR— 22:11, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
• Support I can hardly imagine people regularly calling it Joseph R. Biden Jr. Station The Proffesor (talk) 23:34, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Link to "Silver Star" goes to wrong place

"Silver Star" should go directly to the Amtrak train line/service. Currently, it goes to the military award. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.200.217.133 (talk) 13:39, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 11 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. There's also a consensus to move Wilmington station (disambiguation) to the base location. Regarding "Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Railroad Station" vs "Wilmington station (Delaware)", which was only brought up relatively late in the discussion, I would suggest having a new RM over that issue. Jenks24 (talk) 04:45, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

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Wilmington Station → Wilmington station (Delaware) – The current name is a very generic name, as can be seen at Wilmington station (disambiguation). It needs to be disambiguated with "(Delaware)". And it should be lowercase per the WP:USSTATION guideline. epicgenius (talk) 02:23, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support replace current page with a disambiguation page -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:27, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Wilmington Station should be redirected to Wilmington station (disambiguation) as well. --Regards, James(^talk/_contribs) 13:24, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support the move. Should not rely on the upper case S for disambiguation. Secondarywaltz (talk) 16:05, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per WP:USSTATION. The dab page should be moved to Wilmington station. Wilmington railway station in England also needs disambiguation as there are several railway stations of this name.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:17, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support, and the case made by the nom is a reasonable argument against the recent rash of renaming of station articles over the past two years. Although I prefer the name "Wilmington (SEPTA-Amtrak station)" in order to include the two railroad systems that use the former PRR station, I'd settle for the current proposal, due partially to the fact that this was similar enough to the original name of the article, and partially because of a proposal by DART to take control of the current SEPTA stations within Delaware. -------User:DanTD (talk) 23:41, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support, with redirects from "Wilmington (SEPTA station)" and "Wilmington (Amtrak station)" for compatiblity with {{Stnd}} and {{Amtk}}. Useddenim (talk) 00:23, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
• Comment: I'm finding dozens of sources refering to the station as "Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Railroad Station".[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]. This is the same station, correct? If so, it appears to be the WP:COMMONNAME, and also lets us use natural disambiguation, which is preferable to a parentheses.--Cúchullain ^t/c 01:05, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
  • It looks like Joe Biden is less popular name for this station than "Wilmington", though. WP:COMMONNAME appears to be WIlmington here. epicgenius (talk) 04:12, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

But neither "Wilmington" nor "Wilmington station" are available, and obviously the Wikipedia construction "Wilmington station (Delaware)" is not common at all. As I say, natural disambiguation is preferable to a parentheses, even if it's (somewhat) less common than the base name. We'd also need to look at reliable sources that have been published since the name change. It seems more and more use the Biden name.--Cúchullain ^t/c 04:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

The other Wilmington stations override your desire to keep it as is, and makes the parentheses more than necessary. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 23:16, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Infobox width

I'm not sure about other users, but when I look at this article, the infobox is too wide, and thus pushes the pictures which should be in the article to the bottom, which then messes up the reference list, making it unreadable. This doesn't seem to happen in visual editing mode. Template:Infobox_station doesn't have a width parameter. Could someone try to fix this? I hope it's not just me. Daybeers (talk) 02:56, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done The issue was the |upright=1.5 parameter, which was added years ago. I've removed that. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 03:20, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

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"Joe Biden (Amtrak station)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Joe Biden (Amtrak station). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 16#Joe Biden (Amtrak station) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  — Tartan357  ^(Talk) 20:55, 16 September 2020 (UTC)