Talk:Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

Requested merge

As Mark G. Schroeder is only notable for being the current president of this Synod, this should be merged into this article. That the Synod is notable doesn't make its President automatically notable. Please see WP:N and related policies. Thanks!--Cerejota (talk) 22:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I have added Karl R. Gurgel to the merge. Exact same situation, except it has information on his actions afterwards. This information is of no encyclopedic value, as he is not notable, except as a former president of the Synod. --Cerejota (talk) 22:41, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I have added Mark Schroeder (WELS president), redundant article title, but a good redirect.--Cerejota (talk) 09:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Please support or oppose, this is not a vote so remember to comment

• Support - person not notable for anything else as per notability policies. --Cerejota (talk) 22:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support - An editor named Schroedezd27 created a Mark G. Schroeder article and a Mark Schroeder (WELS president) article and added his name to the WELS article. Seems like a WP:COI to me. --Sift&Winnow 22:49, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support on both counts. I tried to get the Gurgle article deleted as non-notable some time ago. --Lendorien (talk) 18:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support - None of the three pages in question should have been created in the first place. Let's go ahead and merge them (actually just delete the three articles) so that we can remove the merge notices from this article. --Hamitr (talk) 04:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Additional comments

Place additional comments here

• Perhaps the list of presidents chould be changed from redlinks. This would discourage the making of articles about non notable people. --Lendorien (talk) 18:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• I went ahead and redirected all 3 pages here so that we could nix the 3 merge notices. --Hamitr (talk) 06:59, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

removal of Anti-Catholicism bullet

I removed the Anti-Catholocism bit. First, who decided it was anti-Catholocism rather than pro-Lutheranism? The entire paragraph is framed in a very POV manner. Second, it isn't really a difference from LCMS beliefs. Third, it did not accurately reflect the source that it cited. Anyway, it's out. --Hamitr (talk) 04:52, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Removing the differences sections

This has bothered me for quite some time. I think the sections that compare the WELS with the other two large American Lutheran Denominations is inappropriate. Neither of those denominations has section that contain contant of a similair nature. In addition, it has the result of defining the WELS based on those two groups rather than its own belief and practice. I propose that these sections be combined into a section similair in content to Lutheran_Church_-_Missouri_Synod#Teachings_of_the_LCMS. The compare and contrasting language should be removed to focus on what the WELS belief and practice is in its own right. --Lendorien (talk) 14:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I for one appreciated that content. It is true that the WELS is the third largest Lutheran church in the US, and a comparison to the first and second largest seems appropriate to me. If that content doesn't go here, then where? Or must a student necessarily read the articles on all three churches and perform his own painstaking analysis? Anyway, jmho. 208.58.71.231 (talk) 02:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I just don't think it's proper. None of the other lutheran articles have sections like this. Like I said, the WELS should be defines by its own teachings rather than that of other denominations. --Lendorien (talk) 17:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

In short, we should focus on our own synod first, before considering others. In that respect alone, there's plenty of work to be done. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 21:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not at all appropriate, as written. It's clearly biased an apologetic from the WELS standpoint. ELCA, e.g., also affirms that the Bible is "inerrant", they just have a different understanding of what that means. 128.210.106.34 (talk) 16:37, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Personal Ordinariate

Apart from the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church, the article should really consider verifying whether groups within Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod have ever sought a similar canonical structure to the proposed personal ordinariates. ADM (talk) 02:12, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

View of the Roman Catholic Church

The entry states the belief of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod that the pope is the Antichrist. However, the first link doesn't show any source for that, just some questions and answers related to the Church theology and the second link is plain empty. The first link about Doctrinal Statements shows this sympathetic view of the Roman Catholic Church [1]: " Lutheran—that's just like Catholic, right?// There are many things that the Lutheran and Catholic churches share: the Bible, the Creeds, the Lord's Prayer, the Lord's Supper, Baptism, and much of the liturgy used in worship. After Luther was excommunicated from the Catholic Church, those who followed him retained the things from the Catholic Church which were good and true. They rejected only the beliefs and practices that were not scriptural. A significant percentage of the members of our church are former Catholics, so we certainly have no bad feelings toward Catholic people. But we do not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church that are not based on the Bible./ Significant differences between the Catholic Church and ours include: the papacy, the nature and role of Mary, invocation of the saints, the doctrine of purgatory, transubstantiation, use of the Apocrypha and tradition as sources of doctrine, and justification through a combination of faith in Christ and good works./ As Lutherans, we love to speak about the forgiveness of sin that we have in Christ. If people realize that they have complete forgiveness through Christ, they will see why there can be no purgatory for Christians. If they understand that we are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus, they will understand why we do not need to pray through saints as mediators./ All of our congregations provide obligation-free information classes that explain what we believe and why. All are welcome to attend./ For more information about the various differences between the Lutheran and Catholic Church bodies, read Catholicism Today, a Bible study available through Northwestern Publishing House." This doesn't seem anti-Catholic at all. I also found this article in praise of pope John Paul II in their official website: [2]. The entry needs a proper source to show if the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod considers the pope to be the Antichrist.Mistico (talk) 02:16, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that without a proper source their view of the pope as the Antichrist will have to go. The page of their official website where that was stated is now empty. I think the better way to solve that question would be to email the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod to clarify it definetely.Mistico (talk) 22:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, before any sort of overreaction to such strong statements, it is best to look and clarify/verify any such claims. For relevant material on this subject, here is one source: [3]. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 21:28, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the source. It was once here but it had somewhat disappeared. It's not surprising at all that Lutheran conservatives tend to see the pope as the Antichrist. It is also the same stance of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. But the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church seems to have adopted some moderated attitudes, despite all, to the Roman Catholic Church.Mistico (talk) 23:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, despite his view of the papacy as the Antichrist denies being anti-Catholic. This is taken from their official declaration recently made on the matter: "While WELS continues to see the characteristics of the Antichrist in the Roman Catholic papacy, it is wrong and dishonest to portray this belief as stemming from anti-Catholic bigotry. We do have strong convictions, and we identify what we believe are teachings that depart from the Word of God. But we hold no animosity toward Christians who hold the Roman Catholic faith, and we respect the right of people to hold beliefs different from ours even as we point out the error. Furthermore, we rejoice that even in the Roman Catholic Church, where we believe that the gospel has been distorted, there are many Catholics who hold to a simple faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior and who will ultimately be saved. Testifying to the errors that still exist in Catholic doctrine is itself an expression of love; remaining silent or glossing over doctrinal differences would express the opposite."Mistico (talk) 16:57, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Northwestern Publishing House

I simply merged its article into here. There's simply not enough material to warrant a separate article. If that section grows large enough such that it is too cumbersome to include entirely in this article, then that is a good time to give NPH its own article. In the meantime, info pertaining to NPH is best here. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 12:46, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Paragraph regarding membership growth

I removed the following paragraph that was recently added to the Breakup of the Synodical Conference section because it seems to involve original research and opinion and, except for the one reference to the WELS Essay File, has no sources. It also doesn't seem fit in the flow of the article at that point since the next section directly references the preceding paragraph. If someone can find some appropriate sources, it might be possible to modify it and restore it to the article.

"As attested to in numerous congregational histories on the Wisconsin Seminary website (ref>http://www.wlsessays.net Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary Essay File), the WELS began a strong period of growth outside its historical territory of the Upper Great Lakes by receiving disaffected LCMS members who were angry at what they believed to be liberalizing trends within that denomination during the 1950s and 1960s. Inside the LCMS itself, conservative protest led to a hard-line conservative becoming denominational president in 1969 and a resulting crackdown on its flagship seminary in St. Louis, Concordia Seminary, to remove suspected liberal faculty and ministerial students. But some who were impatient for such full restoration of traditional orthodox Lutheran teaching and practices such as closed communion either joined existing WELS congregations or formed new ones, bringing the church to parts of the U.S. where the LCMS had previously been the only alternative for conservative Lutheranism. A growth spurt occurred for the WELS in the Southern and Western U.S. as a result in the 1970s and 1980s, lasting until the close of the 20th century."

Indyguy (talk) 17:47, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Potential additional historical information

I noticed that a recent edit to Martin Luther College removed a fair amount of history that, while perhaps only tangentially pertinent to that article, would be on topic for this one. Indyguy (talk) 16:08, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merger of WELS Synodical Council into this article

The WELS Synodical Council article has minimal information in it. The only links appearing in web searches are for routine business, and seem to be all in WELS-related websites. The content of the article would easily fit into the Synodical government section. Furthermore, the only mainspace link to WELS Synodical Council is from this one. Indyguy (talk) 21:29, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NOPAGE. schetm (talk) 04:12, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

I accepted and fulfilled the merge. JackFromWisconsin (talk | contribs) 02:21, 21 September 2023 (UTC)