Talk:Women in Aztec civilization

Untitled

This article does not read like an encyclopedia entry, but like a thesis paper. And that thesis, that women enjoyed "some equal opportunities" has absolutely no support in the article, and probably little in the larger body of scholarship. The article soft pedals the fact that a warrior society will tend to exclude individuals who are less well-suited to physical combat and the fact that women were indeed excluded from the Aztecs' various warrior fraternities. The articles emphasis that "only" the noble classes practices polygamy overlooks the fact that men (not women!) who could afford multiple wives, had multiple wives, and monogamy among the commoners was not indicative of egalitarianism but women's role as status markers for powerful men. The implication that the Spanish disruption of this system by "imposing" monogamy on the upper classes somehow reduced women's status compared to men is absurd. Finally any serious treatment of this topic would need to deal with the Aztec myth about the male sun god killing and dismembering his sister the moon goddess and how the Aztecs applied this myth to their subjugation of other peoples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.68.128.91 (talk) 17:12, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2018 and 13 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Taylor Caitlin.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Peer Review

Your writing style is neutral and to the point, good job consolidating information into an encyclopedic-like entry. I also appreciate the detail you enter into in regards to the textiles and ceremonies. I also like your use of archaeological pictures. My suggestions include the following:

You mention equality and independence in your lead article, though these terms are quite general and may not be the best for a clear lead section.

Include some redirects to other pages so that the reader may more fully understand Aztec culture if they wish, as well as the colonial and political process you discuss.

Flesh out the history and ritual subsections.

A lot of information on this topic may be able to be devised from archaeological research (in peer reviewed journals). Information from ceremonial and everyday artifacts, as well as the architectural organization of Aztec sites, elucidates social roles a good deal and could provide some interesting detail that is difficult to find elsewhere. Archaeology is now one of the primary sources of new information on these time periods, so looking up scientific peer reviewed arch. journals and articles would likely be overflowing with info!

You mention present day remnants of Aztec women culture in your lead, but do not touch on this in the article. I would particularly be interested in political/cultural issues that concern women today who identify with Aztec heritage.

I'm not sure, but including Pregnancy and Childbirth as your first two sections might belittle women's roles to their physiological roles too abruptly. However, your sections are all well balanced, though I wonder if there is more information out there to add on additional subsections beyond work, pregnancy, and childbirth...or enough information to create sub-sub sections within these.

Some of your points are vague and I find myself wanting to know more. For example, in the labor subsection, "They were regarded as true artisans with prestige and control over their own work...what does "true artisan" mean in Aztec culture, what did this control look like, and what did artisan guilds look like in Aztec culture? These generalizations help explain women's actually roles when contextualized in Aztec culture. Because your topic is about something as contestable and ambitious as identity, I would recommend citing more often when you make blanket statements regarding the undoing of the Aztec empire by the Spanish.

Deitkm (talk) 04:21, 14 April 2015 (UTC)04:28, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Peer Review

Suggestions: In this sentence, “However, polygamy was only a practice among the nobles of Aztec civilization; the majority of the population were monogamous,” the correct verb use would be “was” and not “were.” I looked at the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Spelling, and I think labor is preferred over labour. However, the page is not entirely clear. Your lead paragraph does not flow well, and the connections are unclear. I would suggest simply reorganizing your existing sentences. This is my suggestion for a rewrite: “Women in Aztec civilization had a certain degree of acknowledged equality with men and enjoyed relative independence until the 15th century, when Spanish conquest forced European norms onto the culture. After the conquest, Aztec civilization saw the rise of military culture, which was closed off to women and made their role subordinate to men. However, many pre-Columbian norms survived, and their legacy can be seen today.” I also added a comma after survived in the last sentence. The history section needs more information than just a sentence. The first paragraph in the marriage section lacks some cohesion. You begin by saying Aztec marriage practices are similar to other civilizations but then state a difference. I would suggest rewriting the first sentence so it says something about how even though their marriage practices were similar, there were key differences. I also would suggest that “young people of both sex” be written as “young people of both sexes.” You probably want to go back and check for comma errors. I mentioned one earlier, and I noticed this one as well: “Her kinswomen would decorate her arms and legs with red feathers, and paint her face with a paste containing small shimmering crystals.” Remove the phrase “one was that” in the sentence “One was that she could not view an eclipse, or her fetus may transform into a monster.” It sounds like you are just listing one taboo, but then you go on to list more, so it does not make sense to start with “one was that.” There is a red link to the snail species. Did you mean Plicopurpura patula instead? Remove the phrase “this meant” in the sentence “This meant that women were denied access to one of the largest sources of wealth and prestige within Aztec society” because it is redundant. This sentence (“Another earth goddess was Cihuacoatl, as well as a supporter of women who died during childbirth.”) needs to be rewritten. I would suggest rewriting is as “Cihuacoatl was another earth goddess, as well as a supporter of women who died during childbirth.” It would also help if the religion and mythology section was longer. I would suggest saying “Catholicism” instead of “Catholic religion” in the Spanish rule section. Remove the comma in this sentence: “They focused on the Aztec nobility initially, to create an example for the other Aztecs to follow.” Remove the comma after others in this sentence: “Nobles such as Quetzalmacatzin, King of Amaquemecan (Chalco), were forced to choose one wife and abandon the others, to comply with the Christian institution of marriage, which meant monogamy.” The last phrase (“which meant monogamy”) is awkward, and I would suggest rewording it. Overall, the content of the article is great (and really interesting), and it is well written in Wikipedia style. Agardn9520 (talk) 03:13, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Peer Review

This expansion of an existing article has deepened it in some areas, but it still needs to be fleshed out with new material on a variety of topics. Please keep in mind the assignment's advice that "contributions of fewer than 2,000 words of added or thoroughly revised prose are inadequately short." A number of the sources cited, and new ones that could be added, could be used to add a great deal more than has been added so far.

Here are some notes:

• The Aztec empire was an overarching political unit that encompassed a great number of other societies/cultures. It would be helpful to use some of their names and explain how gender was related to each.
• Spaniards arrived in the 16th century, and Aztec culture did not immediately succumb to restructuring.
• Try to reconcile, or describe the relation among, phrases like "a certain degree of acknowledged equality with men," "relative independence in matters such as paid work," "Women were predominantly recognized in their communities as professional," "Women mainly worked inside the home." Also, what of the large number of women working in markets.
• History needs to be dramatically expanded and to specify the sequence of changes that Nash charts in her article.
• What was the status of female royalty and nobility? What happened to these women when the Spanish arrived?
• What power did women hold at the community level? How did this change over time? How were women in communities brought under Aztec control treated?
• How did the military tread women in communities they conquered and occupied?
• "Women and Aztec religion and mythology" could be expanded with descriptions of the roles of priest and sorcerer (as mentioned briefly) and by a description of female deities in Aztec mythology and how they changed over time.

Additional sources to consider:

• Chapter 6 of Aztec Archaeology and Ethnohistory by Frances F. Berdan
• Women and political power: The inclusion and exclusion of noblewomen in Aztec pictorial histories
• The Aztec women chapter of Women and colonization: anthropological perspectives
• The first two chapters of Indian Women of Early Mexico

--Carwil (talk) 20:25, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Aztec Midwives

I wanted to add to this article as a project for school on midwives in Aztec culture. I would be creating a new subsection in the childbirth article, and I will be discussing the techniques and rituals that the midwives used. Are there any issues on this page I should be aware of before adding? Would this be alright to add to this article? Taylor Caitlin (talk) 18:27, 28 September 2018 (UTC)Taylor

Pregnancy and Childbirth Section

Hi, I will be considerably rewriting the section on pregnancy and childbirth and adding more information. I will be deleting the majority of this section in order to do my rewrite and was wondering if anyone had any issues with this?

Thanks, Taylor Caitlin (talk) 23:27, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

First paragraph is confusing and contradictory

The first paragraph, describes that women in Aztec Civilization had equal opportunities. However it then goes on to say women were excluded from the military. However the next sentence says that women were allowed in the military PyraticalPunk (talk) 18:57, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Some unhelpful changes were made earlier this month, which I've undone. Thanks for bringing attention to it. Squeakachu (talk) 19:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)