Talk:Women of the Wall

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Andrea10303.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gisellen, Madison525600.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Quotes failing verification

Today, Monochrome Monitor and I found, between us, three quotes attributed to Frances Raday's chapter in Secularism, Women & the State: The Mediterranean World in the 21st Century that do not appear in the book. (The source is accessible at Google Books and Scribd.) In addition, the page numbers cited are wrong.

That source, like many of this article's sources, was added by Chesdovi, who has not edited in three months. I would encourage other editors to carefully review his contributions to this article and their correspondence to their alleged sources. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 02:52, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Oh wow, I thought you hated me. Thanks! The quote appears in the study but it is in the words of the narrator, not the person they are supposedly quoting. Just making that clear.--Monochrome_Monitor 03:19, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

1) I don't hate you. There are some things about which we don't agree with one another, and some things about which we do agree. Editing Wikipedia often makes disagreements and differences seem bigger than they are.

2) It appears I was working too fast and misread your edit summary, "that isn't in quotes in the source", as "that isn't in the source". I found that two other "quotes" in that paragraph ("all maleness and war" and "desire of the Orthodox establishment to preserve religious patriarchal hegemony") weren't in the source, so I thought that was what you found too.

3) You say the quote appears in the study. Which quote? I can't find the quote you deleted ("fallen inadvertently into the trap of maintaining Jewish national sovereignty in the Wall Plaza, Judaizing the space") either. If you found it, could you link to the specific page? Thank you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:31, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

That text appears in a different book p266. Zero^talk 04:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Yikes. I didn't realize there were two sources by Raday. Thank you, Zero. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 10:41, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the source I was referring to.--Monochrome_Monitor 17:36, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Does WP:ARBPIA3 and WP:ARBPIA apply to this page?

Is this page related to the Israel Palestinian conflict? To my understanding - the Western wall is located in "disputed territory". It is important this this issue be clarified. Thanks. CaseeArt ^Talk 20:49, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

No, absolutely not. The Western Wall is located in the Old City of Jerusalem, which was occupied by Jordan in 1948 and Israel in 1967, but this article is not about, or in any way related to, the location of the Western Wall or the Arab-Israeli conflict. It is about an intramural conflict within Jewish religious circles and Israeli society, not between Jews or Israelis and Arabs.

If you truly believe WP:ARBPIA and WP:ARBPIA3 apply to this article, if you think it could be "reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict", I suggest you make your case at WP:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:09, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Malik. In support you can check that the article has only one sentence, or two with a generous interpretation, that refer to the I-P conflict. On the other hand, if in the future there is an expansion of I-P related content, or if there is an edit-conflict over I-P related content, the rules of ARBPIA3 should be applied. Zero^talk 05:10, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Great! No objections. Let me clarify - I agree that this article content is barely about the conflict. However because I saw a January 9 edit summary in which User:Zero0000 wrote in the edit summary "Rm nonsense. Any IPs are not allowed to edit here, per WP:ARBPIA3"[1] - I thought there was a discussion somewhere (that I don't know about) to include this article in WP:ARBPIA3. But from above comment it appears that User:Zero0000 is agreeing that this article is not included. CaseeArt ^Talk 06:52, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

You noticed that I was reverting an attempt to add I-P related content, right? So, even though I had forgotten that incident until you reminded me, I'm pleased to note that it is consistent with what I wrote now. Zero^talk07:18, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

After seeing your comment "IPs are not allowed to edit here" I thought that there was a consensus somewhere that this article is part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - but thanks for clarifying that this is not what you meant.

• There appears to be a consensus that WP:ARBPIA and WP:ARBPIA3 do not apply to this article (in general). Thanks to all involved. CaseeArt ^Talk 20:53, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Bolstering and Additions

I would like to expand and bolster the section on "Women of the Wall's position" by adding how they believe the Western Wall is pan-Jewish, a national and religious site, and belongs to all the Jews of the world. This article does a great job explaining events but there are two specific events I would like to add. One being April 11, 2013 when five women were arrested for allegedly goading and offending the feelings of others by praying at the wall and the ruling stated it was the protestors fault not the female worshipers. The second is April, 24, 2013 when Sobel (Jerusalem District Court Judge) ruled that the Women of the Wall had the right to worship at the Wall. The last thing I would like to add is a minor background section on 1967, when Israel initially gained control of the Western Wall. The source I will be using is by Yitzhak Reiter, called Feminists in the Temple of the Orthodoxy: the Struggle of the Women of the Wall to Change the Status Quo. My edits will be coming from pages 79-101 of this source. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page.Andrea10303 (talk) 05:39, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Additions to the history portion of the page

I would like to add some relevant information to the history section of this page. The specific information that is missing includes the many court proceedings that happened in between the dates that are mentioned in the section. I would add the legal battles between the High Court of Justice and the Women of the Wall between 1995 and 2000. Since the government did not uphold the position that they would find a way for the Women of the Wall to pray, they appealed to the High Court of Justice in 1995. This concluded in April of 1996, determining that the solution was to move the Women of the Wall’s prayer from the Western Wall to the Robinson’s Arch. The Women of the Wall appealed this to the Ne’eman Committee in 1998, who reaffirmed the previous decision. The Women of the Wall accepted this on the condition that the area that they were being moved to be set up to be a proper prayer area. The government did not do such preparations resulting in the appeal to the Supreme Court in 2000. In this appeal, the supreme court ruled that the government was required to allow the Women of the Wall to exercise their religious freedom and practices at the Western Wall. The article does a great job of explaining the events in particular, but I think these are important as well. I have found this information in Feminists in the Temple of Orthodoxy: The Struggle of the Women of the Wall to Change the Status Quo by Yitzhat Reiter. If anyone would like to discuss or comment about this let me know on this talk page or on my own. Madison525600 (talk) 09:38, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

• :Hello, Madison525600, and thanks for your planned changes. This looks promising but when I look up the source you mention, I don't see a book by that name. Was it an article perhaps and if so where was it published and when? Chapmansh (talk) 20:23, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your question. It is an article from Purdue University Press and it was published in winter 2016. Any further questions, let me know. Madison525600 (talk) 03:45, 28 November 2017 (UTC)