Talk:World War II casualties/Archives/2011/April

Correction on Overmans

In Footnote 22 of the Table = Footnote 19 underneath the Table (something is wrong here) it says in the paragraph on German Military Casualties that "The Overmans research project was supported and funded by the German government." This is wrong and should be corrected. The Overmans research project was supported and funded by the private Gerda Henkel Stiftung, as he clarifies in the Acknowledgements to his book.243eglinton (talk) 19:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I do not agree, the Overmans research was published the German Armed Forces Military History Research Office an agency of the German government, however you are correct in saying that it was funded by funded by the private Gerda Henkel Stiftung. --Woogie10w (talk) 20:11, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

His researched was published by the private R. Oldenbourg publishing house as part of a series of the Military History Research Office which belongs to the Ministry of Defense. The implication that his research was supported by the German government is misleading and would be comparable with saying that all the thousands of scientific papers coming from German researchers are supported by the government because their institutes and universities get funded by the Ministry of Education. 243eglinton (talk) 10:39, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Dr. Rüdiger Overmans, an associate of the German Armed Forces Military History Research Office from 1987 until 2004 [1]. When Overmans worked on the casualties project he was an standing officer in the German Armed Forces, his research was not private project. The Overmans research project had the official endorsement of the German Armed Forces Military History Research Office. The Forward to Deutsche militärische Verluste im Zweiten Weltkrieg was written by Fiedhelm Klein M.A. Oberst iG. Amtschef des Militärgeschichtlichen Forschungsamtes

I own a copy of the book, however for those that do not here is link at Google books that clearly shows that the book is in fact endorsed by the German Armed Forces Military History Research Office [2] The endorsement and support is clear and unequivocal, this cannot be disputed.--Woogie10w (talk) 11:43, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the research was endorsed by the Military History Research Office. However, it was neither initiated, funded, or published by the German government. As it was not initiated, funded or published by the Ministry of Defense or its Military History Research Office. If you feel that mentioning his employer adds credibility to his book then please correct the statement in the Footnote and write: "The result of the Overmans research project was endorsed by the German Armed Forces Military History Research Office an agency of the Ministry of Defense." 243eglinton (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

The Forward to Deutsche militärische Verluste im Zweiten Weltkrieg was written by Fiedhelm Klein M.A. Oberst iG. Amtschef des Militärgeschichtlichen Forschungsamtes, the logo of the Militärgeschichtlichen Forschungsamtes appears on the cover of the book [[3]. They endorsed and supported the Overmans research project. This is clear as day, klip und klar--Woogie10w (talk) 15:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

BTW the Ministry of Defense is an agency of the German government and Overmans was an active duty officer in the Armed Forces at that time, in fact he was employee of the German government. His research was published under the logo of Military History Research Office and was endorsed by Fiedhelm Klein its chief officer.--Woogie10w (talk) 16:07, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, as I said, the Ministry of Education is also an agency of the German government, and every University professor is in fact an employee of the German government. Would you now claim that all the university research which is published is supported by the German government? And would you add to a research work that comes from a University that the latter is an agency of the government? Certainly not... So why don't you just clarify in the Footnote that Overmans' work was endorsed by the Military History Research Office (I completely agree with you on this) which is affiliated with the Department of Defense. See my proposal above. 243eglinton (talk) 19:07, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out, your proposal has improved the article.--Woogie10w (talk) 19:37, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I think it is important to be as correct as possible in these articles. No matter how small the error may look. And this statement on Overmans "supported by the government" could already be found frequently on the internet. I will soon come up with more proposals for improvement. 243eglinton (talk) 06:36, 18 April 2011 (UTC)