Talk:World War II casualties/Archives/2016/September

error in tabel about holocaust deaths

In the table on the middle of this page, about the number of holocaust deaths, there is an annoying error. it states the following for the Netherlands:

Netherlands 112,000 100,000 105,000 89.3% 93.8% 91.5%

These numbers are wrong. The pre war number of jews in the Netherlands was 140.000. The number of deaths is however correct, with 105.000. Subsequently also the percentages in the same line are wrong. it is a well know fact that about 75 percent of the jews in the Netherlands fell victim. See for example this page: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_in_Nederland

I hope this error will be corrected.

MaguaJFK (talk) 19:46, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia cannot be used as a source--Woogie10w (talk) 19:48, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

The table listing the Holocaust deaths is taken from The Columbia Guide to the Holocaust. The figure of 112,000 is correct because it includes those Jews subject to deportation by the Nazis. The higher figure of 140,000 includes persons in mixed marriages who were not subject to deportation.--Woogie10w (talk) 23:40, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

I put the figure of 140,000 in the footnotes with its source The War Against the Jews. The figure of 112,000 should stay in the table since it is listed in the cited source The Columbia Guide to the Holocaust. In any case Nederlands Wikipedia needs to be cleaned up since they do not cite sources for its figures--Woogie10w (talk) 00:09, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

It is more complicated. I found an article stating that for a time jews from mixed mariages were deported In the Netherlands. Until Hitler himself ended that practice, by saying it was illegal to deport mixed marriage jews. Here you can find the article, it is in Dutch however. https://www.groene.nl/artikel/teruggefloten-door-hitler I states that hundreds were thus deported. Also, are you sure that in other countries the number of jews stated is also that without the jews in mixed marriages? It seems rather artificial, to not count those jews. MaguaJFK (talk) 10:50, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

It is more complicated, notice the figure in the Columbia Guide to the Holocaust for Germany is 566,000 Jews which is the figure for 1933. From 1933-39 over 400,000 Jews fled Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia. Some of these refugees were in Holland, Belgium and France when the Germany occupied these countries in 1940. The grand total of 9,067,000 in the Columbia Guide to the Holocaust is correct, however the population shifted from 1933 to 1939 so that German Jewish refugees were included in the 1940 population of Holland, Belgium and France. The total number of Jews and Holocaust dead are correct, the Columbia Guide to the Holocaust did not duplicate the number of Jewish refugees from Germany by showing the population in 1933.--Woogie10w (talk) 12:40, 13 September 2016 (UTC)