Talk:Xavier High School (New York City)

Regarding Vandalism

Hm... it seems that many of the people who are guilty of the vandalism of the Xavier High School article are in fact students at Xavier High School. It would be nice if we could represent our school in a mature manner without the unnecessary and childish comments in between. For example, "Caseywurzbachville" is a completely unnecessary and asinine comment. If you are going to add to the page, then at least add legitimate things or post whatever you are going to add before posting it. By the way, there is no need to explain Jug. It is something that is true of the school, but there are so many better things to tell everyone about. So, please, would everyone grow up and stop posting nonsensical or incoherent articles. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zouf (talk • contribs) 23:27, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Regarding vandals

Matt, do you really think that the idiots are going to pay attention? I doubt that they even know that the talk page exists. —Larry V 03:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

This behavior is quite common among highschool students who have discovered Wikipedia. I see it all the time from schools all over the globe while on rc patrol. I'm sure that in many cases it's a noisy handful that cause the trouble, but that's all it takes. I'd wager that 60% to 80% of the vandalism on Wikipedia comes from school computers. --Kbh3^rdtalk 04:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I kind of figured that out a while ago, looking at other high school articles and such. Once, I tried editing an article from a computer at my school, only to find that the IP had been blocked. —Larry V 01:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Dioceses served, et cetera

It is true that Catholic students who attend this school hail from dioceses other than the Archdiocese of New York; however, the issue of students' geographic diversity is already covered by noting that "Xavier draws students from all five boroughs of New York City, as well as New Jersey, Nassau County, Westchester County, and even Orange County." In addition, the statement in question begins, "The school serves ...." Quite clearly, Xavier High School "serves" only the Archdiocese of New York. Schools and parishes do not "serve" multiple church bodies. It would be greatly appreciated if user 207.188.97.8 replied to this message, or at least provided a decent edit message explaining his/her reasoning in repeatedly adding references to these additional dioceses. If no reply is forthcoming and the article is reverted to the prior state, this user will be reported to Wikipedia administrators. —Larry V 17:53, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Neutral observer here. I don't have any specific knowledge of this particular situation, so I won't edit it either way. I wonder what is meant by "serve" here, and what the relationship of this school to the archdiocese is. Diocese are established by the Church to serve a particular region. Parishes are established by a diocese to serve a particular geographic area, and parochial and diocesan schools are established to serve the geographic area of the parish and the diocese, respectively, though they frequently will take students from other areas (frequently charging an unsubsidized rate). However, this school is run by the Jesuit order, not by the archdiocese. It is not under the control of the archbishop. Unless there is some relationship with the archdiocese, or something in canon law that ties it to the diocese in which it sits, I don't see why you would insist on saying that it serves only one of the serveral diocese in the city and region from which it draws its students. Even though my understanding of the relationship of non-diocesan religious orders to the bishop in whose diocese they operate, is incomplete, I don't see how it's wrong to say that it "serves" the wider area, but if you just cannot come to agreement on this one way or the other, I'd suggest the article just omit that phrase entirely and say that it serves students from all these various areas, which is indisputably true. --Kbh3^rdtalk 05:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I understand what you are saying — to tell the truth, my understanding of the relationship of non-diocesan religious orders to the bishop in whose diocese they operate isn't particularly advanced either. The real problem here is that user 207.188.97.8 does not seem to want to discuss this. Perhaps this is not to be unexpected, as that IP address has been warned numerous times in the past for vandalism; this is also not surprising to me, since that IP address originates in my school's (Xavier's) computer lab. One issue that I have with the phrase itself is that, while most students there certainly are Catholics of the Archdiocese of New York and the Diocese of Brooklyn and Queens, the percentage of students from the Diocese of Rockville Centre is insignificant. In addition, many students are not even Catholic (such as myself). And if the goal was to express the school's service of these areas — well, there is a reference to that later on in the article, referring to the five boroughs, Nassau County, and New Jersey. After thought, I agree with your final suggestion and have deleted the guilty phrase — although no doubt user 207.188.97.8 will revert that without saying a word. —Larry V 00:39, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Famous Xavier Alumni

I know there are more notable alumni from 30 West 16th Street than just Scalia and Roker. Like Donald Cook for example.

- verndogs

Thanks! Any others you know off the top of your head? I probably should know myself, but I've never had to give an Open House tour. =/ —Larry V (talk) 07:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Also i believe the fact that Shaft is not in the article should be adressed. The mayir would have had our school bulldowzed down to create a mini-mall if it wernt for Shaft.

Lack of Resources

This article definetly needs more references. For instance, how do you know that Xavier is planning to introduce its own admission exam? 68.175.27.35 01:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, much of what has been placed in this article is hearsay gathered from around the school itself. —Larry V (talk) 02:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I personally spoke with the Director of Admissions, who is an old friend, and he stated that the rumors about a new test for admission are completely untrue. The TACHS will continue to be the admission test. 67.72.98.83 19:30, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

They just started using a separate application to get into Xavier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.95.127 (talk) 15:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

They've had a separate APPLICATION for a long time (since at least the mid-'90s, when I went), wherein one lists extra-curriculars, writes a short essay, etc., but the admissions test used is still the TACHS. 67.247.26.135 (talk) 13:58, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

New Developments

Since when do they teach "rhetoric"? Even when my dad graduated back in the 50's they were phasing it out - we certainly didn't study it when I went.

I heard that Xavier is constructing a new building --- some info on that might be appropriate in the article... 64.12.116.131 04:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

That's in the planning stages, yes ... I'll add something once I get a hold of the Alumnews magazine that I saw the info in. — Larry V (talk) 21:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know the reason behind Dr. Gerics' departure? 66.108.1.7 00:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Something about taking care of his mother, I think. Not exactly sure, though. --Larry V (talk | contribs) 02:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

It might take a while for info on the new theatre to get out, because no one outside of the administration seems to have a clear idea about how in hell its going to get built. According to posting on the XHS Alumni site, construction hadn't begun by mid-July. By the way, and this is my own opinion mind you, but considering that the article has been cleaned up quite a bit, don't you think it's time to unflag it? It's terribly embarassing, not to mention, at least at this point, inaccurate. Just a thought! 67.72.98.83 19:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

References

…or complete lack thereof. This article has just four references; for its length, this is ridiculous! Larry V (talk | contribs) 11:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Father Gatti's Departure?

Is this even true or is it just something that a vandal put there that no one has bothered to remove? 68.237.203.136

Check the school website -- this is accurate Bobby GR (talk) 13:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Rugby

The rugby team has won three national championships, two in Division I, and one in Division II. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the "Athletics" section? HandsomeSam57 20:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Military at Xavier - the decline

It's too bad that I can't think of how you would source the story, to the extent I know it, of how the military came to be optional. The late sixties was a great time to be at Xavier. Various Jesuits were at their most extreme in oppostion to the war. The younger mil sci faculty were just back from tours in Vietnam including Major Smullins. Rather than having one teacher for the year as with other classes military science had "blcoks of instruction". The faculty was a couple of retired sergeants, a couple of active duty sergeants and Major Smullins. Senior year, besides "The Psychology of Leadrship", he taught "Counter-Insurgency". Meanwhile the Jesuits uptown were under surveillance by the FBI (ironically a profession not unusual for Xavier graduates). Out on the street in uniform we were required to salute real military officers, cadet officers, priests and nuns and faculty members. Some of the faculty said they didn't want to be saluted, kind of embarrasing. Up until 1969 most juniors and seniors were required to be MP's every third week or so. Basically you stood in the hall, came to atention for faculty and cadet officers and persecuted underclassmen for being out of uniform. Senior year they decided to make MP's a special unit. It was cool they even got brass pistols rather than rifles to wear. There was a flaw in the theory. About one third of the seniors were officers and another third were high ranking sergeants. Those that were left were the kids who had majored in Jug. One of the greatest achievements you could think of was to graduate from Xavier as private. It took four years of living on the edge of being thrown out, but somehow persisting.

One of my friends told me that every first sergeant in the first and second battalion (the third was special units) was getting paid off to mark kids present a drill.

Kids came in wearing black arm bands, which was out of uniform. In another irony the pro war kids wore American flag pins. They were also out of uniform.

I wish I could document some of this, but I guess it has to stay in the talk section

Peter Reilly (talk) 01:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by decline -- numbers, maybe. But it still gets high scores from the Department of the Army, and still sends students to the academies. Given your estimate that a third were never really "in the program" - opting for jug and demotion -- a percentage today of 30%+ wouldn't be so bad. Is optional such a bad thing? Bobby GR (talk) 00:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Campus Ministry

An earlier version of this page had morphed a description of the school's retreat program into an unsubstantiated rant about "liturgy", "clericalism", and "neglible" presence of Jesuits at the school. Perhaps the author/authors want to offer a different perspective; but as an interested party I'd think the wiki community would be better served by comments that are demonstrable, not simply gut feelings. Rgr1969 (talk) 22:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

I was trying to fix vandalism and may have made a hash of it. I think it is OK now.

Peter Reilly (talk) 20:34, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

"Private" versus "Independent"

There seems to be a general trend of changing the description of private schools to be "independent" schools, and an IP editor is doing that on this article. I do not believe this is a good thing. It is clear (at least to US readers) what a "private" school is, it is a school that is not available as of right to any child in the general public, not part of the public school system. What, on the other hand, is an "independent" school? Independent of what? "Independent" seems to me to be a branding/labelling thing, an attempt by private schools to undercut any reputation of elitism.

I have reverted the changes, as I do not believe that "independent" is more accurate than "private", which is the generally accepted term for these schools. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:30, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

The "X" Squad

The article mentions that the Saber Guard is Xavier's drill team. What's happened to the "X" Squad? I'd heard that they'd been suspended for a hazing incident; has the suspension turned into permanent dissolution? (BTW, the "sabers" the Saber Guard uses look pretty much like swords to me - straight and on sword hangers rather than saber safes.)Flidoc06 (talk) 00:34, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Puffery

Beware the tendency to boast. This article reads like a collection of student newspaper articles, even after some extensive pruning. To truly impress, let plain facts speak for themselves. Note WP:NPOV and WP:PEACOCK. The page WP:COI appears relevant for many editors as well. Note particularly Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism.

See this article about another Jesuit high school with similarly impressive "bragging rights" that appears to be much more neutrally presented, though certainly not perfect. Consider also that that article has more than 3× the number of inline citations and that very few are from the institution itself; it is poor practice to cite the subject of an article as occurs repeatedly here. An active editor interested in this subject could well spend his time improving the number and quality of citations in this aritcle. --Kbh3^rdtalk 17:56, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Broken Citation

I went to fix a reference that someone forgot the <ref></ref> tags. After I corrected the reference was going to a non existent page so I removed the reference if someone is able to figure out the correct reference it was at the end of this sentence: "Xavier's Regiment has four extracurricular teams: the Rifle Team, the Raider Unit, the X-squad and the Saber Guard." The reference that was there in case it helps is: [http://www.gsabuildingchange.us/bios.html Saber]. If anyone can help improve that would be great. This is also the reason I removed a reference, it was broken. Etineskid(talk) 02:27, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

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See also section

I added to the see also section the Church of St. Francis Xavier since it is of heavy significance to the school itself but I could not find any mention to it in the article. I also added Canisius High School since it is another Jesuit secondary school in the New York Province and maintains fairly close ties to the Xavier HS but is also unmentioned in the article. Meters seems to be taking issue with this? I do not understand why especially the first addition. OgamD218 (talk) 02:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I asked why these should be in the article. Simply stating that the church (presumably St. Francis Xavier Church (Manhattan), not the DAB) "is of heavy significance to the school itself" does not explain anything. It simply says that you think it is important to the article. How is the school connected to the church?

As for the other Jesuit school, well, we already have a see also links to List of Jesuit sites and List of Jesuit secondary schools in the United States so presumably the other school is already listed. I see no mention of this close tie. Again, please explain why this school should be mentioned.

The user also inappropriately added a see also for Mike Tolkin with the same edit [1], which is why I didn't give this the benefit of the doubt. Meters (talk) 03:06, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Those 2 specific Churches are affiliated and easily confusable. Further I did not inappropriately add Tolkin, though I agreed with your point that it was unnecessary. As for why I added Canisius, I already explained as much to you. OgamD218 (talk) 03:35, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Again, why should these be in the article? You simply saying that they are closely connected is not an explanation. Meters (talk) 01:24, 19 March 2021 (UTC)