Talk:Yaghnobis

Forced Migration

The forced migration to the "newly established district Zafarobod in northern Tajikistan" comes from the article in footnote three in the references, the article by Thomas Loy. Mattisse(talk) 11:38, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Resettlement

I saw there was a question about the Yaghnobi being resettled in the last edited: "northern? it seems they were resetteled to south." Some were resettled in the north, and some in the south. During the civil war some of the Yaghnobi villages in the south were targeted for massacres. David Straub 13:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification

It's hard figuring out what happened specifically from the online articles. But it was clearly devastating to the Yaghnobi people as the article describes. I've been finding little pockets of people that this type of thing happened to. Mattisse(talk) 13:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

More sources

I'd been wanting to write an article about the Yaghnobi for a while, but I just haven't had the time. I'm glad to see that others have. There are some good sources that you might want to reference about this subject:

THE YAGHNABIS in the The Peoples of the Red Book http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/yaghnabis.shtml

Iraj Bashiri. The Yaghnobis. <http://www.iles.umn.edu/faculty/bashiri/Tajling%20folder/yaghnob.html>

I also have a pdf file copy of a 1971 New York Times article about the resettlment that I could forward to anyone who is interested. Has a lot of good information. E-mail me at davestraub@yahoo.com if you're interested.

There are a number of other interesting language groups in Tajikistan, notably from the Pamir languages. There are some wikipedia articles on them, but some notable languages, especially Shughni, haven't been written about yet.--David Straub 00:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The New York times article I mentioned above is: Soviet Moves 4,000 in Tribe From Asian Mountains to Plain: Formerly Herdsmen, Yagnob People Will By THEODORE SHABADSpecial to The New York Times New York Times (1923-Current file); May 4, 1971; pg. 6

It can be found in the following database: ProQuest Historical Newspapers: The New York Times (1851-2008)David Straub (talk) 22:29, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Sources

One of those sources I already had, only under a different address. I stuck it on the front page anyway, so I can keep track of it for now. I've seen that Red Book before too, maybe under a different language/people.

When you look at the map at Tajikistan, it is a startlingly small country. Mattisse(talk) 00:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Tajikistan is small, but it's a pain to travel around because there are so many high peaks you have to pass over. Before modern times communities were highly isolated from their neighbors because of the countries rough geography and languages could thrive in isolation.--David Straub 01:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

forced migration 2

Tl sughd 22:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

first I would like to learn more about the mentioned forced migration in 1957??

regarding the resettlement in 1970 and 1971 - the whole valley (not only the yaghnobi villages!) was relocated to Zafarobod district in the Leninabad oblast' (north of the turkestan chain).

Three years after the forced migration some villagers and families illegaly returned to the mountains.(this was a phenomenon throughout the history of Soviet inner-tajik migration policy)

In 1978 the returnees were resettled again (this time they could choose whereto - some decided to go to the Yavan district in southern Tajikistan) - only the families who returned to the village of Kiriyonte avoided the anew resettlement.

regarding the villages in southern Tajiskistan: there have been earlier waves of emigration from the valley to the south (Varzob valley, Hisor valley... in Soviet times as well as in the 19th century and even earlier...)

from my point of view there are some other inaccuracies and mistakes in the article.

On the forced migration see as well the publication (in German):

Thomas Loy: Jaghnob 1970. Erinnerungen an eine Zwangsumsiedlung in der Tadschikischen SSR. Reichert Verlag, Wiesbaden 2005.

tl

Bad citations; poor quality article

The citation concerning "Zoroastrian motifs" comes from a page without any reference to the Yaghnobi. Many points of information about the resettlement are not cited, or are cited with a bit of information made up by some silly wikipedian. It is better to take down this page than continue with this misinformation. This is one of the only outlets for the Yaghnobi to the wider world, and the work I've seen here is shoddy. When I have more time (when I'm not preparing to go to the Yaghnob for thesis work) I will actually change this, as I do have scholarly sources related to the Yaghnobi with accurate information, not hearsay. But this is why wikipedia is not a scholarly source. This is an entire people we're talking about here. Take this seriously. I shouldn't be surprised though, almost all of the Central Asian articles seem as if they're written by someone who's never been there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.160.70.72 (talk) 20:40, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Picture

Thats a fancy picture about a fancy silver jacket and absolutly nothing usual or normal. For this article its neither a good one nor a serious one. Also the proposition of the 2 children is something very fancy and popculture. Thats nothing about serious facts and perspectives. its def. something from showbis --93.184.26.78 (talk) 11:38, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 25 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. No objections, and seems legitimate.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

---

Yaghnobi people → Yaghnobis – Per WP:ETHNICGROUP and WP:PLURAL. Plus Yaghnobis redirects here. Wario-Man ^talk 14:54, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

R1-M173

Hi @Fylindfotberserk- I see you changed R1a to R1. R1 is the parent haplogroup of both R1a and R1b. It is extremely rare in modern populations and mostly holds historical significance. In contemporary populations, R1 is typically expressed as either R1a or R1b, regardless of the region or group. The main paternal haplogroup of the Yaghnobis is R1a-Z93. A Y-DNA haplogroup that is M173-positive (R1) but lacks the M420 (R1a) and M343 (R1b) mutations is known as R1 (R-M173*) or R1*. However, the source does not mention that the Yaghnobis lack these mutations. It doesn't even specify R1a or R1b but generalizes all descendants under R1-M173. It is nearly impossible to find R1 without the R1a or R1b mutation at 32% in any modern population. Therefore, it is redundant to separately mention R1-M173 and R1a in the genetics section. R1a isn't even referenced in the source. For example, it also mentions: "The neighbor-joining tree (Fig. 2) shows several population clusters defined by branches from a central point. Cluster I is composed primarily of European populations, all characterized by high frequencies of the M173 haplotype." This is not discussing R1* but the R-M173 family in general. I would like to hear back from you. Hismajesty2b (talk) 14:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

@Hismajesty2b: What you did in your edits was stereotypical WP:OR. If you cared to go through the table (Table 1), it specifically has columns listed as M-173 (R) and M-17 (R1a). The Yaghnobis show 32% M-173 that is R and 16% M-17, that is R1a. That is "R1a is properly referenced". It is possible that some of the M-173 might turn out to be R1b and the rest R1a, but we are not supposed to come up with something which isn't mentioned explicitly, contravening WP:NOR in the process. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:11, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I apologize if my edit was problematic. I only did what I thought was logical. M17 is not R1a in general but specifically R1a1a. And haplogroup R is M-207. Haplogroup R1 family is M-173. You are correct that the source doesn’t mention how M173 is specifically expressed in Yaghnobis (or any other group in the study), but it never states that it is without mutation; otherwise, it would have mentioned R1*. It would be better to mention R1a1a instead of just R1a. However, no studies have ever shown an R1b mutation in Yaghnobis. Anyway, whatever you deem fit. The source is not even clear about what mutations it's assuming and why it separates only R1a1a (M17) from R M173. Thank you for your swift reply. Hismajesty2b (talk) 15:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

You are most welcome. I'm aware of the latest nomenclature system associated with various mutations, I should have mentioned R1a1a. Thanks for pointing that out. Considering how old the source is, a time when Haplogroup 3 was renamed as M17, which in turn into R1a/R1a1*, they were scraping at the tip of the iceberg as far as that notable lineage is concerend. No wonder the study is kinda focused towards that. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:46, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Cheers, mate! :) Hismajesty2b (talk) 16:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)