Talk:Yobidashi/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 23:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Links

• Spot check seems good. Checked 15, 18 and 19.Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:19, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Prose

Lede

• For an article on a Japanese item, the lede is very American. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I'm French, and the terms used simply reflect the articles and books from which they are taken.

• is a handyman - they aren't handymen, just say what they do. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done

• as we know it today - unnecessary Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done

• former sekiwake Takamiyama,[4 - do we need to state his former rank? Can we not just say by former sumo? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

On the contrary, I think it's important to mention the rank in order to emphasise the fact that the testimony comes from someone who used to be high up in the hierarchy (which means several decades in pro sumo). Sumo wrestlers are also called rikishi btw ;)

I am familiar with rikishi, but mainly only due to the professional wrestler of the same name. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

• Why are we missing their second name? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

On what subject? For the yobidashi: I've only found sources on the lack of a surname. None of them mention the reason for that lack, but one hypothesis is that it comes from the yobidashi's commoner origins. Concerning the names of the people mentioned (like Takamiyama): it is common in sumo articles to mention only the family name, these ring names often being unique.

We're linking to Takamiyama Daigorō, so why not use his full name in the prose.Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

• ] and subject to the same strict hierarchy and traditional appearance as the other professions gravitating around professional sumo, - I have no idea what this means. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Reformulated.

• are notably involved - we never need to say what is notable.Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done

• the dohyō (wrestling ring) or - this is a personal thing, I suppose, but I think we're wiser to say what the thing is, and then use the official name in brackets, rather than the other way around. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't agree with that, as it would reduce the clarity of the information. It won't have escaped your notice that a dohyo doesn't really look like the ring you imagine it to be when you say 'ring' (like those used in pro wrestling or boxing, for example).

• However, as they are not restricted to their duties on tournament days - surely the other tasks are part of their duties? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

In a simplified sentence, I wanted to emphasise the fact that they had duties other than those performed in public, which they carried out in a more discreet way.

General

• The status of yobidashi - presumably you mean that they weren't called that, or the role didn't exist? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Both in truth, the appearance of people performing a more or less similar role is detailed just after.

• yobidashi would sat down - tense. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done

• Most of them enter - just say "Most enter". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done

• and it's not uncommon for most of the newcomers to be amateur wrestlers who haven't managed to break through but are keen to stay in the world of sumo, which fascinates them. - condense. This is puffy to state they are fascinated. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Removed term

• as described - what?

The term referred to the hierarchical presentation immediately following. Misleading, I deleted it.

• 400,000 yen ($2513, or €2313) - see MOS:CURRENCY. No need to link euro or dollar, but this needs to give a date as to when this has been converted, and there should be commas in the numbers. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I'd still like to keep the link to the currency used. Otherwise done.

• Since October 2019 the tate-yobidashi position has been vacant after the incumbent, Takuro, from Kasugano stable, was suspended for two tournaments and announced his retirement for hitting a junior yobidashi over the head after he caught him eating in the customer seating area on jungyō.[ - as this has now been usurped, it can be removed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm (weakly) leaning towards keeping the information, as it shows that the top of the hierarchy can be vacant.

• In keeping with their workman outfits, - I don't think we've stated that is what they wear. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Sentence deleted, as regards the first remark.

• who enter the ring are notoriously using cheat sheets so as not to make any mistakes in public - cheat sheets? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:18, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

The term is the one used by John Gunning. The yobidashi discreetly use small sheets of paper tucked away in their pockets to avoid making a mistake by calling a wrestler by the wrong name. I think this term captures that.

Can we not just say "use notes", rather than a slang term. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

• Link second world war. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:18, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. I've replied in the body of the comments. - OtharLuin (talk) 17:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I've left some additional comments, but happy to promote. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.