Talk:Yorkshire Coach Horse

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Removed section about German warmbloods

I have removed the section "Influence on German warmblood breeds" as WP:UNDUE trivia and WP:COATRACK.

Of the 4 sources cited in that section:

• The two horsetelex.com pedigrees are blank, and lists those two horses as Cleveland Bays, not Yorkshire Coach Horses.
• The Bomann Museum source doesn't mention coach horses at all.
• The wiki-editor who added this section seems confused in that the horsemagazine.com source mentions the major importation of "English Coach horses", not Yorkshire Coach Horses. (Even if an "English coach horse" was from "Yorkshire", that doesn't make it a "Yorkshire Coach Horse".)

The only provided connection between German warmblood histories and the Yorkshire Coach Horse seems to be mentions of a singular stallion, "Holderness", as being (variably) a YCH or an "English coach horse" (which isn't the same thing as a YCH). YCHs weren't gray, as Holderness was. The Hanoverian book by Von Stenglin merely mentions in image captions of paintings from the mid-1800s (pages 22-23) two stallions at Celle stud as being YCHs (one being the gray horse "Holderness"), followed by the text "Interestingly enough, Sebras and Holderness were bought in spite of having unknown pedigrees". I have no access to the dressage book by Loch, but I doubt it has anything to add beyond another passing mention of YCH, perhaps a mention of Holderness.

It is well known that horses (coach, carriage, draft, riding and racing horses) have been exported/imported from one country to another, as well as used in the making or modifying of various breeds. However, the removed section provided no real evidence or sufficient reliable sources to warrant a section like this connecting German Warmbloods and the extinct YCH.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 21:18, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to need to see some citations for "YCHs weren't gray, as Holderness was". YCHs were crosses between Cleveland Bay and Thoroughbred horses, and the Thoroughbred blood could've easily added gray to YCH genes. This notably also happened when the Narragansett Pacer was crossed with gray Thoroughbred stallions, such as Messenger, and the gray gene passed to partbred offspring. As for "I have no access to the dressage book by Loch, but I doubt it has anything to add beyond another passing mention of YCH, perhaps a mention of Holderness": Please double-check the original source before removing citations, or determining that they "have [nothing] to add". Edits on Wikipedia should be based on hard facts and evidence, not personal assumptions that may or may not be true.

"the removed section provided no real evidence or sufficient reliable sources to warrant a section like this connecting German Warmbloods and the extinct YCH" You determined a source was "unreliable" based on a gut feeling, rather than properly verifying whether or not the source(s) provided were "real evidence or sufficient(ly) reliable sources", while also failing to provide sources yourself for your counter-claim(s) contesting said sources.

In any case, I will likely propose a page merge for Yorkshire Coach Horse into the main Cleveland Bay article due to the former being quite sparse in terms of content and citations in general, as well as sources debating other whether or not the YCH was actually a separate breed. Obversa (talk) 17:40, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to see YCH merged into CB. Perhaps it should be pasted whole as its own section under Cleveland Bay § Influence on other breeds.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 17:50, 9 August 2024 (UTC)