Talk:Youssef Chahine

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2019 and 25 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mennaazzam. Peer reviewers: AmalAlMuftah, MaryamAl-Suwaidi.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:21, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Communist

Youssef Chahine communist ? Give sources please ? Ericd 13:38 Apr 7, 2003 (UTC)

And what allows you to say he's a communist ? Ericd 13:43 Apr 7, 2003 (UTC)

Rewards

um , rewarded since 1931 , the guy was born in 1926 !!! any reference or source?--82.213.33.75 15:56, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

LGBT Director

Youssef Chahine gay or bisexual ? Currently both Chahine's article and talk are categorized under LGBT-related articles, and I can't find any sources on that within the article. Give sources please. In spite that this is a legitimate addition, we cannot add it based solely on rumors, or references to homo/bisexuality in his autobiographical-inspired movies (he might very well have had fantasies or curiosity for relations with other men, but had never went into one). We should have either a credible source commenting on him being either gay or bisexual, or a source on him coming out as one. I have removed the references for now, until we reach a consensus on this topic-- G o a r a n y     talk   04:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Gay-Bisexual Themes

I added a section with this name. It was summarily removed by user 70.121.33.78 without any discussion or comment. This is contrary to Wikipedia policies. There's no doubt that such themes often exist in his work nor that they were also controversial. As such, they are appropriate for this article. There was no claim about the directors own personal life or sexual orientation. Before reverting edits, users like 70.121.33.78 should first engage in a discussion on this page. Thank you. Interlingua 04:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Filmography

I have edited the Filmography section as it was lacking lots of Chahin's work SchwarzeMelancholie (talk) 02:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Origin

No one has mentioned in the article that Youssef Chahine's parents were Lebanese from Zahle that had emigrated in Egypt in 1920. By origin he was Lebanese. I thought that stating complete facts are better than half facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.37.205 (talk) 07:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

You need reliable sources to make that change. Also, this article is about Youssef Chahine, not his parents. You're welcome to create another article about Youssef Chahine's parents and mention this information, if sourced. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 07:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

The article is about Youssef Chahine and apart of Youssef Chahine is that he is by origin Lebanese, his parents are Lebanese and his birth name was Gibran Sawaya. My sources were reliable and if Youssef Chahine himself stated to you these facts you would still deny them. This article is about Youssef Chahine, not presenting the fact that his origin was not Egyptian is retaining relevant facts. Your saying it is irrelevant that by origin he was Lebanese, not really because he went voluntarily to Lebanon when he was exiled from Egypt. You are really distorting this article by holding back information. Because when he came back from Lebanon he came back stronger.

http://arabfilmfestival.com.au/filmmakers/youssef-chahine/

New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/28/movies/28chahine.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Youssef%20Chahine&st=cse&oref=slogin http://arabnews.com/?page=9&section=0&article=112191&d=28&m=7&y=2008&pix=community.jpg&category=Features%22

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2008w29/msg00072.htm CAIRO AFP QUOTE: " Chahine was born on Jan. 25, 1926 to a Christian family of Lebanese origin in Alexandria,"

Even: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1005859.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/jul/28/egypt

Egyptian Al Ahram http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/821/cu4.htm Lebanese Father

Born Gabriel Youssef Chahine on January 25, 1926, in the Egyptian city of Alexandria, his childhood could only be considered vibrant and cosmopolitan, thanks to his Lebanese father http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/6/Pages/06282008_639aacf017784629b2f4782b08637018.aspx

Born into a Christian family of Lebanese origin in Alexandria, http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2008/07/27/egypt-filmmaker.html?ref=rss So I have referenced reliable sources from all over the world, from Cairo, New York, the Arab world, the U.K. and even Israel.

So his country of origin is relevant since all of these relevant news sources have stated his Lebanese origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.37.205 (talk) 11:55, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

What you are doing is totally wrong. You are totally neglecting that his parents were anything but Egyptian. His father was born and raised in Lebanon and later immigrated to Egypt. So that does not make his parents Egyptian as u stated. Your like distorting facts and denying history —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lebanese bebe (talk • contribs) 19:14, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

No one is denying that he is Egyptian born but you are denying and omitting that he is Lebanese by origin. Mr. arab cowboy yalle shayeef 7alak be hal 2isim, akeed bta3reef 2no el walad byil7a2 2asil bayoo, wa 2asloo Lebnani. Lebanese bebe (talk) 20:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

What a rude comment! --Arab Cowboy (talk) 20:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

AC, I don't know who is Admin sanchez, and I don't care to know. there are plenty of sources on Chahines origins, and it's only fair they are cited in the article. Like most other articles of people from different origins. Please stop reverting. Best, Yazan (talk) 01:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The origins of Chahine's parents were already cited in the article, although this article is about Youssef, not his parents. In this encyclopedia, extending the origins of the parents to the person in reference is "a leap too far" as the admin Sancho, whom you do not care to know, had said. This would be original research ans is not allowed. You're welcome to write an article about Youssef's parents, but this one is about Youssef himself and he was only Egyptian; when whe made an autobiographical film, he called it "Haddouta Masreyya" (An Egyptian Story), not "Haddouta Lebnaneya".

Yes ofcourse he's egyptian, nobody is disputing that but he is of Lebanese origins, he is of lebanese descend, why is that so offensive to you, so you wouldn't hear of it in the article. It is not original research, his parents WERE Lebanese, and naturalized Egyptians. Yazan (talk) 01:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

That would not be offensive to me at all, but it is untrue. All of the references you and bebe have posted mention that his FAMILY were of Lebanese and Greek origins. You have not even shown whether his parents were naturalized or born Egyptians? You need proof that they were not naturally born Egyptians, but still that applies to them only, not Youssef. In this encyclopedia, you cannot EXTEND that to Youssef himself. So, all of those references are invalid. Do you get the point? I am giving you the courtesy to undo your revert yourself. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 01:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes ofcourse it does extend to him. If his father is Lebanese, then he is of Lebanese descent. He is Egyptian, of Lebanese descent. Al-Ahram says his mother was Greek, does that Not make him of Greek descent?. I changed the lead a little bit, take a look at it, and let me know, if that's acceptable. Yazan (talk) 01:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

You still do not get the point. You say, "If his father is Lebanese, then he is of Lebanese descent." This is original research. You cannot CONCLUDE one thing from another when editing articles in WP. You need a reliable source that makes this statement explicitly. I repeat again, WP policy is that "Even the leap from "Sharif's parents were Lebanese", to "Sharif is of Lebanese descent" is going too far". Also, origins do not belong in the lead, but in the body of the article, if at all. You also stated that his parents were naturalized Egyptians... why do you say in the article that they were Greek and Lebanese without saying that they were Egyptians, naturalized or otherwise? You still need reliable sources for all of that. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 01:57, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

(indent)Please refrain from that condescending tone, I know exactly what original research is. All Arab Americans for example are considered of Arab descent because one of their parents a few generations back was an Arab American. Regardless, you can move the origins to the early life section, I agree. Al-Ahram, which is a rialiable source says "Chahine was born in 1926 in Alexandria to a Greek mother and a father of Lebanese descent." [1]. Yazan (talk) 02:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC) And it's not WP Policy, if you find one document in WP about how to handle people's descent, that says that, I'll gladly forfeit this argument. Yazan (talk) 02:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The statement in the early life section is backed by a WP:RS, please don't remove it. I've already removed the contentious point in the lead. I need to go now, but if you still have a problem with the wording let me know here. Cheers, Yazan (talk) 02:09, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Yazan, I am not being condescending to you at all. Please do not take it that way. I am tired of having to go through this fruitless debate all over again after we've been through it, painstakingly, on Omar Sharif's page, at the conclusion of which, the admin had to remove all reference to Lebanese origins all together because all sources referred to his parents, not to Omar himself. Here's the final version that the admin had approved. Again, this article is about Youssef, not his parents. You still say that his parents were Lebanese and Greek in the article when you had stated before that they were at least naturalized Egyptians. What am I missing here? --Arab Cowboy (talk) 02:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

AC, no worries, all in good faith. Yes I realize this article is about Youssef Chanhine, but every biography must have a family or early life section, and in that section we mention where his parents are from. Take a look at Ralph Nader's, for example. As for the other thing I simply couldn't find a source about them being naturalized egyptians. All sources claim his mother is greek, and his father is lebanese/or of lebanese descent. If you find a source about his parents being naturalized egyptians, feel free to add it. Yazan (talk) 02:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

OK, made change with references to Egyptian family and Lebanese and Greek origins. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 04:44, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

AC, you know that a blog post is not a reliable source, plus that part was obviously coupied from wikipedia (at an earlier version of this page). Will you please revert these changes and think of a better articulation. Most of the sources says his mother is Greek, not of greek descent, while his father a lebanese emigrant. I don't understand your reluctance to accept what the NY Times, while quoting a blog that quotes wikipedia! ;) Walaw. Yazan (talk) 07:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

AC you're beef with LB aside, I'm afraid I'm reverting the changes you made to early life, this reference is not acceptable. Best, Yazan (talk) 07:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

In all of the sources the only thing that is verifiable is that Youssef Chahine's parents were Lebanese, his father was Lebanese.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/jul/28/egypt http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/6/Pages/06282008_639aacf017784629b2f4782b08637018.aspx http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/blog/2008/07/youssef_chahine.html

Lebanese bebe (talk) 14:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

By the way ya cowboy, he can write whatever he wants, Haddouta Masriyee or Haddouta Yabanee for all I care, I only care about verifiable facts and the verifiable fact is he was by origin Lebanese, his father was a Lebanese emigrant. So please no original research, he can consider himself whatever he wants, but by origin and by verifiable fact he was Lebanese ;) I do not know why this upsets you so much, the fact that he is Lebanese by origin really seems to upset you basita its kind of flattering ;) Oh and another thing, his origin does matter? He is apart of the Lebanese diaspora :D No one denied he is an Egyptian citizen nor that he was born in Egypt. But his origin is not Egyptian and it is documented through verifiable sources :) Well anyways even if u want to hide the fact that he is Lebanese, everyone already knows he is so good luck Lebanese bebe (talk) 14:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

To: 132.198.88.98

According to admin Sancho's rule on the matter on Omar Sharif's Talk page, if Chahine's father was of Lebanese descent, this does not justify labelly Chahine himself as of Lebanese origin. This would be original research, which is not allwed in Wikipedia. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 16:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Youssef Chahine may have been Egyptian via citizenship (in the same way I am American through citizenship, but I am also Lebanese), but his father was mentioned in the article and I edited it to include the origin of his father, which is relevant. Also listed credible sources. This is silly. LebaneseBebe (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

    To: Everyone who contributed to this extremely important subject:

I don't get why his ethnicity is important! He is a person who we only knew through his art! Ethnicity is not that important, I'm half Armenian ethnically and I'm part Levant too but I refer to myself as Egyptian and this IS what counts. Chahine referred to himself as Egyptian and his work portrays how Egyptian he was. When he was asked about his religion he replied "Egyptian". We can actually choose what culture we identify with. I would suggest stopping this ridiculous debate and enjoying his art instead. Grow up, humans! (added on 26 September, 2021)

Peer Review - Yassine

Hello,

The article is rather complete and detailed for a historical of such historical importance and I enjoyed the thoroughness of the information presented. Though, I have two observations related to structure and completeness of the information in this English version of the article. Nontheless, these remain minor observations.

In terms of structure, I found odd how controversies and theme were separated. Moreover, I think that mentioning the theme of sexuality as sole to what his work tackles would be very minimal. It is essential in that case to merge what is mentioned previously with Youssef Chaine's affinity to Pan-arabism along with that theme of sexuality, because at first glance, it reduces it may reduce his scope of work to a narrow frame of subjects while in fact he did touch upon more than that. Examples of themes he tackled are pan-arabism, arab cinema, industry crisis, tradition vs modernity etc... So I suggest that themes be completed with the adequate information which leaves the opportunity for the sub heading of controversies to be placed or mentioned under tackled themes.

Additionaly, it is important to note that some of the essential information are incomplete. For example, Youssef Chahine's award nominations and wins recalll more than the mentioned in the article and it is important to refer to them.

Hope it helps and good luck!

YO — Preceding unsigned comment added by YassineNUQ (talk • contribs) 19:06, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Noora's Peer Review

This seems like a very well-organized and complete article. A few notes that might be helpful are: under the Gay-Bisexual themes in his work subheading, you might want to make it into a different form rather than having it in a paragraph form, which might be more pleasing to the eye. So something like having the film title on one line and having a short description of the film under it, rather than it being in a paragraph. The leading section is strong and is clear in terms of explaining who Youssef Chahine is. The external links and See Also subheadings are also a good touch to the article in terms of helping the reader gain more information. I would also move the awards subheadings to go under the Gay-Bisexual subheading. Hope this helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nooranalthani (talk • contribs) 19:16, 23 March 2019 (UTC)