Talk:Zacara da Teramo

Soleado (When A Child is Born/Tränen lügen nicht)

Was he really the composer?--Biologos (talk) 10:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Different Zacar. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 17:42, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Composers Project Assessment of Zacara da Teramo: 2008-11-22

(comments moved here from comments subpage)

This is an assessment of article Zacara da Teramo by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano.

If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down.

Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status.

Origins/family background/studies

Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described?

• OK

Early career

Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

• OK

Mature career

Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

• OK

List(s) of works

Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article.

• It seems like a comprehensive known works list could be compiled. It seems to me that the music described here is not the entirety of his know output.

Critical appreciation

Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)?

• OK

Illustrations and sound clips

Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.)

• No images or audio. An image of him is alleged to exist; how difficult is acquiring a copy for WP use? Failing that, other suitable images should be found. Discography, if available, should be mentioned.

References, sources and bibliography

Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references?

• Article has references, currently has numerous fact tags. It looks like someone worked on the article, but then abandoned it.

Structure and compliance with WP:MOS

Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.)

• Lead could be slightly longer. Article has some short paragraphs; this is distracting.

Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review

• Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) (deal with fact tags)
• Images and media have copyright/fair-use issues (WP:IUP or more specific GA/FA criteria)
• Article prose needs work (WP:MOS) (short paragraphs)

Summary

This article gives a reasonable picture of a composer from a time when documentation is often poor. His life is adequately covered (presumably to the extend modern research knows it). He appears to have composed a fair amount; a more complete compilation of his works ought to be given (either here or in a separate article).

It is mentioned that an image of him exists; it would be nice to have it (we can wish, can't we?). Otherwise, some other images ought to be used here to color the article (manuscript images, for example, since the music was written a bit differently then). Audio clips, especially of music that is from a time this far removed from ours, would also be useful, if available.

Article is B-class, but needs work. Magic♪piano 19:43, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composer project review of its B-class articles. This article is B-class, but needs work. Read my detailed review on the comments page. Feel free to leave comments or questions here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 19:45, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

History of a miscite

The citation of Zachara's Deus Deorum Pluto as a reference to the King of the Demons was originally added by Antandrus as a cite of Reese's Music of the Renaissance, pp. 32-33 -- it's almost certainly true. This edit [1] changed the format reference and attributed it to Fallows along the way by mistake. I re-found the reference in F. Ghisi's article which is older and probably where Reese got it from. So no deliberate attempts to deceive were found; but supports my belief that drive-by cleanup efforts often do more harm than good. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 15:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the detective work! Apart from explaining the puzzling misattribution, this reinforces my belief that reference templates are the work of the King of the Demons, sowing confusion in the world. If those citations had not been "automated" with templates, the error would never have occurred!—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:20, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME

There seem to be more hits for full name Antonio.. than just Zachara. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:24, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

How about for "Zacara"?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 02:37, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

If you look at the literature, Zacara and Zachara are used far more than Antonio. The Currentes CD calls him Zacara as does the most recent book on him; Antonio is used only when discussing his biography. There is a recent movement to call him Zachara and you will find that more and more in articles of the past five years (since no medieval manuscript uses the spelling Zacara), but all previously used names (including Antonio, Zacar, Zacarius, Çacharius, etc.) are falling out of use. The web might have hits for Antonio because of older confusion about whether there were two composers or not, but I can't think of a scholar since the mid-80s (when the confusion was definitively cleared up) who uses that name for him. He himself, however, preferred Antonio, since Zachara is a putdown, and when he needed to use it called himself Antonio dictus Zachara ("Anthony, called the shorty"), but that name fails to distinguish him from dozens of other Antonios and wasn't even in use in his own time. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 04:58, 24 March 2012 (UTC)