Talk:Zeki Müren

Untitled

There is absolutely no evidence that he was homosexual. During glam rock era there were other singers/groups in turkey who dressed like Zeki Muren. Maybe somebody should totally erase the part about homosexuality.

Ignorant editor

I just edited the article for wording/organization/etc.; I don't know anything about Müren. In general, the article needs to be more NPOV (not sound like a fan wrote it) and it needs substantiations of some of its assertions. Someone who does more about Müren and Turkey should address these questions:

• Is "Istanbul Radio" a particular radio network, or does it just refer to local radio in Istanbul? I mean, should "Radio" be capitalized or not?
• I changed "incredible voice" to "compelling voice" just to make it seem less POV. Someone who has actually heard his voice should change this to something more descriptive. Did he hit high notes well? Did he have a large range? Was his voice expressive?
• The "Artist of the Year" citation is totally mysterious. According to whom? Turkish artist of the year?
• I've changed "effeminate" ring to "ornate". I'm trying to use wording that is more descriptive and less judgmental. But I've never seen his rings!
• Someone should expand on why Müren's possible homosexuality is important. For example, if his homosexuality helped to change the Turkish people's view on the matter, or if he is regarded as an important leader in the Turkish homosexual subculture, then the issue is worth raising and explaining in an encyclopedia. Otherwise, perhaps it is not.

Joshuardavis 15:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Joshuardavis, let me answer your questions.

• Istanbul Radio, regional member of the TRT network, was the only radio station in İstanbul operated by the state until the end 1980's. For my opinion, the correct wording should be "İstanbul Radio".
• Zeki Müren was and remains the top Turkish singer as far as voice and spelling are concerned.
• "Artist of the Year" award is being given every year to selected Turkish artists by various organizations.
• Müren conducted always like females. He wore and deliberately displayed a huge ring, which is normally worn by women and not by men.
• Müren was the only person in Turkey, who had civil courage enough to reveal his homosexuality. Consider that Turkey is a Muslim country, and the people had more conservative point of view regarding homosexuality at that times, now 50 years ago.

I hope I could help clarify something. CeeGee 19:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi, CeeGee. Thanks very much for clarifying. I am still confused on one point: An earlier editor wrote that Müren never revealed his homosexuality (so I left it in), whereas you claim that he did. Is there any way we can get a definitive answer on this, and explain in the article what the social impact was? Joshuardavis 20:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi again Joshuardavis, OK! Everybody in Turkey equated him with a homosexual due to his appearance and his effeminate behavior in public. However, I can not remember he has ever expressed that he is a homosexual. Yes, I think he must have contributed somehow the society in Turkey is liberated a little from such taboos, because he was very beloved and respected for his unsurpassable singing skill. All these are my own opinions. CeeGee 21:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

SUGGESTION (4/16/06 by H.S.): Rewording of the sentence "Homosexuality is not commonly accepted in Turkish society." might be a good idea here. My arguments are:

1- This sounds like a wide generalization extending harshly to the present time. In fact, accaptance of gay public figures have changed considerably since the early times of Muren - e.g. Turkish art/pop culture scene nowadays includes many gay personalities who are very well received by the general public (which is true for individuals as well). I suggest we say something like "...was much less accepted in .... during the early and mid career of Z. Muren"

2- This piece of societal fact should better be stated in the article in a way that relates to Muren (perhaps emphasizing that he was one of the first gay/effeminate artists who didn't hide it, probably rendering it more acceptable to the society over the years)

I agree with your points; similar points are raised above. I am not qualified to make the edits, since I know little about Turkey and even less about Muren. If you feel qualified, please make the edits yourself. Joshua Davis 02:15, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I made it and hope it's more clear now. Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Irrelevant Text

Hi, I edited the article removing a completely irrelevant block of text written in Turkish (I believe), and from my knowledge of Hodja Nasreddin, I could say it was more of an attempt to destruct the article, as I see no relevance between Hodja Nasreddin and Zeki Muren. Especially after getting a little help from Google Translate to identify the contents of the aforementioned block of text I was sure that the text didn't belong to this article, not even in its English form. Therefore, I removed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.93.44.163 (talk) 09:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: Women and Gender in the Middle East

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 August 2022 and 14 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EmPatch (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by EmPatch (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2022 (UTC)