Talk:Zhangjiajie

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Hello

I have a group of 15 adults intending to visit the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association (CPCA) churches and visiting the nature and scenic attractions in and around Zhangjiajie and Jiuzhaigou sometime in May 2007.

Where can I get information about the locations of all the CPCAs, the nature and scenic spots in these places?

Can a package be arranged to suit our above requirements? Where and whom can I approach to arrange for such tailored tour?

Thank you and regards.

Noel isabnoel@gmail.com

The meaning of Zhangjiajie

I disagree with the interpretation of the name Zhangjiajie as given. Do you have any verifiable sources for the one that has been entered? The most straightforward meaning for it is got by directly translating the characters, as I was told repeatedly when I stayed there with my wife, a native of Zhangijiajie City (the last time was about 6 months ago.) Zhang is a fairly common Chinese surname, directly translated as "Stretch" in English, but having a slightly different meaning to the English surname Stretch, which has a now archaic meaning. "jia" can be directly translated as "Family" and "jie" can be directly translated as "Homeland". Put these together, as I was told repeatedly to do, and you get "Zhang family homeland." I think it is as simple as that. The area of Zhangjiajie National Forest Park was always known as Zhangjiajie, and it is from this area that the city got its new name, to tie it more closely in with the UNESCO-recognised site. It may well be that the city authorities intend Zhangjiajie to have the associations provided, but the meaning of the city name need not, and is not, I contend, directly be translated as that.  _DDS  talk 02:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I too also find it questionable without a reference (and ty for the grammar thing lol). It is very common for places to have all its families of the same sirname, and then that place is named after that sirname --洋金 09:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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Let me respectfully reply to this discussion. Both discussions are rational and reasonable, particlarly the explanation of the three words from its original chinese meanings. That would be what I would immediately conclude too. However, if one studies the available historical information from 'official' ZJJ websites, http://www.xyzjj.com/csyx/lsyg.htm and http://www.xyzjj.com/csyx/csgk.htm, one can induce (not really deduce):

1. While the existance of the city is old, dating back to 221 BC, the current name of the city is new. Zhangjiajie the city was named Dayong until April, 1994 when a name change was approved by 国务院, the Chinese State Council, from Dayong to Zhangjiajie. 2. While there was no mention of where the name Zhangjiajie actually came from, consulting a Chinese language atlas (Zhonghua Renmin Gongheguo Fen Sheng Dituji) that dates back to the 1980s, before 1994, there was indeed a village named Zhangjiajie, near the city of Dayong, but it is not the current ZJJ city.

The interpretation in the last sentence of the wiki article was told to me by a local tour guide who may or may not be a reliable source. However, while it is entirely plausible that the original small Zhangjiajie village indeed belongs to a certain Zhang family, it is equally plausible that the new city was named for a totally different reason, to provide an advertising slogan to attract tourism. It is also not unusual for Chinese government leaders to attach new-fangled interpretations to current place names and phrases, this is a Chinese practice that has gone on for ages.

In conclusion, we just don't know which is the correct version. We really need the knowledge of someone who was in Dayong in 1994, at the time when the name change was announced. 1994 was not so long ago that I certainly hope Stretch can find some one from the current ZJJ city to verify.

Respectfully Xgchen 03:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC) Xgchen

Ok - Let me give my sources. First, my wife, who is a native of that city, was there in 1994 and tells me that the name is based on "Zhang family homeland"; second my brother-in-law, who is an academic and was involved with the celebrations at that time insists that "Zhang family homeland" is the correct translation; and third, both their parents (now in their late 50s and early 60s) also give the same account. Zhangjiajie was chosen to tie in the city and region more with the National Forest Park (nearby) which was being promoted as a place which should become internationally known. Additionally, the people I met whilst I was there all told me the same origin of the name, which is the "Zhang family homeland" version. These included a wide range of people, the majority of whom were there as their families have lived in Zhangjiajie prefecture and the city for many years, especially a retired teacher of English and local historian. I particularly enquired about this, because one translation of the Zhang surname into English is "Stretch", which is my own surname, and it caused some amusement amongst a few people I met as it was spontaneously joked that "a long-lost son of the city was returning home.". I enquired whether this really was the case, or merely some interpretation of the name that allowed the joke to be made, but I was told not.

The problem is, of course, that they cannot be verified on here at the moment by anyone other than myself, together with a direct translation of the characters. If it would help, I can certainly get my brother-in-law to register on wikipedia, and he can perhaps be persuaded to give a more detailed account of what happened at that time. He also has an alternative explanation of what "Dayong" was meant to mean, and I understand he has done some reading around the history of the city. I am not so clear what his claims are about Dayong. However, I completely agree with the conclusions that can be drawn from the websites you provide, and this agrees with the history of the city I got from talking whilst I was there with families and the retired teacher of English who have lived there for many years.

For myself, I know that this kind of evidence is not entirely conclusive, but it did come from many sources of varying reliability, but with some of fairly good reliability in there; the sources were consistent, as well. I will ask further. I am not sure when I will be returning there, but certainly within the next year at the most. Whilst there, I can search out more authoritative sources, which I think would definitely help.

What would be best to do? Of course, some good wording and editing could allow both versions to be included until the issue can be resolved further, but perhaps that would not be acceptable?  _DDS  talk 10:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Given that my sources are more authoritative in relation to the subject at hand than the one used for the original translation of the name of the city (albeit not published), I have made changes to the article to reflect this. I have also clarified the issue of the small village which has the name "Zhangjiajie" close to, but not in the same place, as the current city. Once again, this was verified by many local people who all gave the same information which is supplied in the re-written article.  DDStretch  (talk) 01:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Zhang

I speak Chinese, and I've got the dictionary you cited. To say that Zhang should be translated as "Stretch" is, well, a bit of a stretch, I think. Regardless, that's a debate best taken to the Zhang surname page on Wikipedia. The exact translation of Zhang isn't relevant to the Zhangjiajie article. Best, Terence7 (talk) 05:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Although you will note that "stretch" is given as the third possible word (after "open" and "spread") in the first primary definition of that dictionary. Consequently, I think your edit summary of April 6 when you labelled it as being "silly" was at best unfortunate and over-stated, as it certainly is not silly. I also speak Chinese and have many close Chinese relatives. I can assure you that at the time I added the material, I discussed this matter with them and they agreed that, locally, "Stretch" was understood to be a good corresponding English surname, though I know that in wikipedia's terms this is weak evidence, excepting that it does state that local usage, etc can be taken into account. (By the way, the jokes you are making about the name are very old and endlessly repeated now - best find an alternative way of making fun.)  DDStretch  (talk) 08:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

inappropriate comments, language

This seems understandable in view of Zhangjiajie’s remote geographical position, its undeveloped land and river transportation, its mountainous terrain making cultivation difficult, and its overall backwardness. For these reasons, Zhangjiajie has been labeled “ the Land of the Savage Southern Minority” since the dawn of recorded history. Also, the people here have borne the names of “Wuling Rude People” and “Tujia Rude People” for generations.

This paragraph does not meet any known academic standard. overall backwardness is not an acceptable term because it's undefinable. If anything 'overall backwardness' would be a result of its lack of development NOT the cause of it, as is suggested by this paragraph. As it stands, the comment is simply offensive while providing absolutely no objective information.

This paragraph, in particular wuling rude people, and 'tujia rude people are uncited, they are unsubstantiated by sources, and I believe the claims will turn out to be unverifiable. What is reported by these comments is one sided hearsay, which I find offensive and racist, and more importantly they have no basis in fact.

My comment on helping to improve this article, delete this whole paragraph, or mark it as unsubstantiated, uncited or controversial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.120.118.241 (talk) 04:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the last comments are unsubstantiated and, since the type of claim made, should be considered for deletion. In fact, most of what has been added since I last looked at this article have absolutely no reliable sourcing. I am now in Beijing, and do not have access to any book in English that describes the history of Zhangjiajie (though I have seen one in Zhangjiajie itself in the past). We need something either like that book, or a person who is bilingual enough to help us add sourced information, rather than what sometimes looks like unsourced toristic rambling. I may appropriate tags.  DDStretch  (talk) 06:40, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Better Sources, Better Captions

I will try my best to get some better sources and better captions than we have already for this article. In particular, the caption for the women in ethnic minority traditional clothes was capable of being improved greatly: they are in Tujia National Dress: my wife wore clothes like this when we got married, and she is a Tujia person. Also, the "Traditional Boat" picture can be improved upon: the photo is of a boat used for tourist trips and the photo is taken from just above the landing (or leaving) stage for tourist to go on a boat trip around the lake. I know because I have been on this trip more than once with various other friends and relatives. The problem is, we need much better sources than this for most of the claims given in this article. I now live in Beijing, but I will see if I can get some better sources over the next few months (even if I must use relatives to translate text I cannot into English).  DDStretch  (talk) 13:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

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To add to article

To add to the article: what it borders. 76.189.141.37 (talk) 23:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

USE OF STONEWARE TERM FOR STONE IMPLEMENTS AND TOOLS

Stoneware term refer to a type of clay-based fire hardened material used mainly for pottery. (Merriam-Webster Definition of stoneware: a strong opaque ceramic ware that is high-fired, well vitrified, and nonporous) In this article reference to “stoneware” found in Palaeolithic sites can not obviously refer to this kind of material since clay fired material (ceramic) development is more recent and belong to Neolithic period and stoneware itself is even more recent. I assume that the reference is actually to stone implements and tools, however I see no reference to original source and I can not check. Definitely I would suggest to revise the “stoneware” term to something different (stone tools?) to avoid misunderstanding and having people understand that “stoneware” was produced in Palaeolithic period. Thanks RITUKALOS (talk) 17:21, 25 June 2020 (UTC)