Talk:Zodiac Seats U.S.

New name for Weber Aircraft

I heard that the new name for Weber Aircraft is Zodiac Seats US LLC. Is this true?--Jax 0677 (talk) 00:22, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

• Comment - I heard that the new name for Zodiac Seats US LLC is Safran Seats USA LLC. Is this true? --Jax 0677 (talk) 13:35, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Where did you hear this and is it a reliable source? Britmax (talk) 16:37, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

FAA woes

Is this the same company that may loose their FAA license from the seat failures? [1] Marasama (talk) 20:31, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

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Weber ejection seats

Weber are reckoned as a major, although not prominent, US manufacturer of ejection seats, from the B-47 days [2] [3]. Yet here that's not mentioned at all, and Weber are said to have only been founded in 1968, clearly too late. What gives? Andy Dingley (talk) 12:09, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

• Reply - WP:BEBOLD --Jax 0677 (talk) 13:35, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 4 December 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. At this point there is no consensus and I doubt one will emerge if we don't have one already after 25 days. Calidum 06:13, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

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Zodiac Seats U.S. → Safran Seats – Safran Group has renamed Zodiac Seats -- Jax 0677 (talk) 13:43, 4 December 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 22:05, 11 December 2018 (UTC) --Relisted. Paine Ellsworth, ed.  ^put'r there  13:06, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Relist comment. IAW WP:RM#Relisting, my reasons for relisting a 2nd time are that 1) I see no clear agreement to move the article with opposition citing valid concerns, and 2) discussion still appears to be ongoing with posts timestamped as recently as yesterday. I see that members of WikiProject Companies were notified on 8 December. As is usual, this RM can be closed at any time by any uninvolved editor should a clear consensus emerge. Paine Ellsworth, ed.  ^put'r there  13:06, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Of the two links suggested by User talk:Jax 0677, the Zodiac Aerospace internet site is not clear on the specifics and I am given a warning that I cannot access this Gainesville Register article for security reasons. Britmax (talk) 17:56, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

• Reply - Gainesville Register article says "One of Gainesville’s largest employers has announced it’s changing its name as a result of the company’s purchase by Safran.

Formerly Zodiac Seats US LLC, the Gainesville company now goes by Safran Seats USA LLC, according to a letter sent to customers and other businesses it deals with. The change went into effect Dec. 1, according to the letter."

--Jax 0677 (talk) 18:08, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Survey

• Support move (Summoned by bot.) The Gainesville Register source is clear and sufficient. And, finally, there is a clear statement from the horse's mouth: "Zodiac Aerospace’s former activities are now the focus of three new companies within the Group: Safran Aerosystems, Safran Cabin and Safran Seats." from [4], retrieved 11 Dec 2018. Chris vLS (talk) 17:53, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

@Britmax: The https://www.zodiacaerospace.com site is (finally) clearer now! Cheers. Chris vLS (talk) 18:53, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose move. This is just recent corporate rebranding. The official name counts for little, as do the primary sources cited. Revisit if and when the name change becomes common in recent secondary sources. Andrewa (talk) 15:47, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
• Comment- Support move for reasons given by Chrisvls. It could not be any more clear that this is the new name of the company, and that the old name has gone away. --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:25, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

It would be good if the proposer and supporters offered some evidence, rather than just asserting that the old name has gone away and similar statements. This is blatantly false. We prefer recent sources but don't ignore older ones!

At least one of the references https://news.delta.com/?s=43&item=1259 currently mentions neither Safron nor Zodiac. so let's try Google... Zodiac seats -Wikipedia gives me 8,410,000 ghits, many of them recent. It's complicated because of the disambiguation U.S.... and a bit strange, is (was) Zodiac Seats a US-only organisation? If not, why don't we have an article on the larger organisation, with a section on the US outfit? That would have seemed a lot more logical. But if it is (was) US only, then the article title never needed the disambiguation U.S. anyway.

Lots to consider, and a move or and/or rescope definitely likely. But this proposal needs work at the very least. Andrewa (talk) 22:17, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply - Given the two sources in question, I don't know how it can be made any more clear that the name is now "Safran Seats". It is irrelevant that one of the references mentions neither Safran nor Zodiac. Zodiac Seats will have more google hits, because it has been around much longer than Safran Seats, whose name changed on December 1, 2018. I am not sure why we do not have an article on Zodiac Seats International. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:40, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Have you read the article title policy? Basically, what both it and the explanatory notes on official names say is that we prefer article titles that reflect what other people call the article's subject, rather than what it calls itself. So, in order to justify a move, we need to find reliable secondary sources that use the new name.

So it's not particularly relevant that the name is now "Safran Seats" so far as the organisation or its website (a primary source) is concerned. As you say, that is clear. But it's not the relevant question.

This is a very common discussion we are having. I don't think it's listed as a perennial proposal but it probably should be. For the moment maybe see wp:correct. My favourite example from that page is Again, please let me know how to push this edit through so that Wikipedia can reflect reality in terms of our company page (my emphasis). See Wikipedia:Correct#Examples for my reply there.

I did a quick Google on Zodiac Seats International and the single ghit was extraneous... does an organisation by this name even exist? Andrewa (talk) 23:04, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Request for comment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Should the Zodiac Seats U.S. article be renamed to Safran Seats? Please post at the Requested move 4 December 2018 section above. Please leave this in place, as I am trying to get more feedback. --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:28, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.