Talk:Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist

Songs in each episode

Thoughts on including the songs that feature in each episode? Schazjmd (talk) 22:42, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Never mind...just noticed we didn't do it for Glee either. Schazjmd (talk) 22:47, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Actually, there are song lists for Glee. Check out Lists of songs in Glee. --dstumme (talk) 00:11, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I didn't notice that, thanks! Schazjmd (talk) 00:15, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Only if there are reliable sources. — YoungForever^(talk) 01:27, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

There likely is reliable sources for those, there will be official NBC videos of each song; additionally you can always reference them to the episode itself. Gleeanon409 (talk) 12:23, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

I wanted to say the same thing. Whether or not Glee includes the songs, I feel that we should include them here. Either in the episode section or in a separate music episode (that would be split into its own article if the show runs long enough). As for sources, User:Gleeanon409 is right that we can just use the episodes themselves as the reference. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 17:25, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

@JDDJS: They still need to be sourced because not everyone is going to know the very songs they sing which can include different covers. — YoungForever^(talk) 07:07, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I’m easily finding sourcing. Gleeanon409 (talk) 11:51, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@YoungForever: @Gleeanon409: @Dstumme: @Schazjmd: Should the songs have its own page or do you think it's fine for it to be on the main article for the show? Factfanatic1 (talk) 01:35, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

@Factfanatic1: It is definitely not enough to have it's own article for now. — YoungForever^(talk) 01:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I would leave it for now, both the main article and the list need expanding but no rush. Gleeanon409 (talk) 05:17, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree with YoungForever and Gleeanon409. Schazjmd (talk) 13:59, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Origin of show concept

https://www.dailyherald.com/entlife/20200216/zoeys-extraordinary-playlist-finds-heart-song-in-tragedy. Gleeanon409 (talk) 12:23, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Should we add a premise/plot/synopsis section for this show?

@YoungForever: @Gleeanon409: @Dstumme: @Schazjmd: @IJBall: That's really the only thing missing from this article in my opinion. Do you think we should add it and how do you suggest we format it and include? And is there anything else you suggest we do or add to fix and improve this article? Factfanatic1 (talk) 19:39, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

I didn't even notice it was missing one. (I haven't read it closely while the show was ongoing because I wanted to avoid spoilers.) Per WP:MOSTV, an article should not have both an episode table and a prose summary so I'd have to say no. Schazjmd (talk) 19:47, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead material

@Factfanatic1:, the WP:Lead echoes what is in the rest of the article, it’s completely fine to have quotes in both the lead and the article. Gleeanon409 (talk) 05:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: The lead should be brief, not to going into details. Details belong on the body. — YoungForever^(talk) 05:05, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Actually it should also include details—obviously not all of them—in roughly four well-crafted paragraphs giving the reader enough interest to read the rest of the article. Gleeanon409 (talk) 05:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: Incorrect, directly from WP:LEAD: The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. Overview is a summary. Also, see MOS:INTRO, which states: Editors should avoid lengthy paragraphs and overly specific descriptions – greater detail is saved for the body of the article. — YoungForever^(talk) 05:20, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

You skipped over...This page in a nutshell: The lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight.

The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents.

The average Wikipedia visit is a few minutes long. The lead is the first thing most people will read upon arriving at an article. It gives the basics in a nutshell and cultivates interest in reading on... Gleeanon409 (talk) 05:30, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: Yet, the keyword is "summary/summarize". Summary is a brief explanation of something. The lead is not supposed to be bloated with details that are already in the body of the article aka on its own section of the article. — YoungForever^(talk) 06:05, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

We may have to agree to disagree. The level of detail we presently have, I feel, is incredibly lacking. You may feel it’s bloated. Gleeanon409 (talk) 06:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: Clearly, you don't seem to understand what "summary/summarize" means. It is not supposed to repeat everything what the body says. Here is is an example of a good article with a four-paragraph lead that is not too detailed at all: Game of Thrones.— YoungForever^(talk) 06:28, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

I think you’re ascribing to me ideas I’ve not proposed. Clearly a summary would not introduce new ideas, but it certainly could echo statements in the article. This article and its lead is in need of further development. Gleeanon409 (talk) 06:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist's lead needs improvement, but it shouldn't be a copied and pasted from the body. The Cinemablend quote that you added is a copied and pasted directly from the body. — YoungForever^(talk) 07:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Actually it was first added to the lead, then repeated once the new songs section was started. All of which is perfectly acceptable. It adds nuance and information, both helpful to the readers; the vast majority of which will *never* read anything past the lead. Gleeanon409 (talk) 07:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: Incorrect, again. On MOS:INTRO, which states: The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article. — YoungForever^(talk) 08:11, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for making my point, the lead should not have anything that isn’t in the article itself but does cover information from the article. Gleeanon409 (talk) 08:59, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: Yet, you are still not getting it. This lead is not supposed to be as detailed as the body and not supposed to be copied and pasted from the body. It is supposed be summarizing the major points of the article. — YoungForever^(talk) 13:51, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Oh good! I was worried this wouldn’t still be going round and round a second day! [sarcasm!]

It’s perfectly fine, and even expected to have pertinent quotes in both the lead and article. Especially in one as underdeveloped as this. I encourage you to let it go as (really) there are much more important things to do. Gleeanon409 (talk) 14:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: So what, if the lead is underdeveloped. It still shouldn't be copied and pasted from other sections of the article nor go into specific details just to fill up space. Also, the quote was overly repeated once in the lead, again on the Critical reception, and a third time on the Songs section. — YoungForever^(talk) 16:37, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

My two cents...I think the lead would be stronger with the information in these two lines being summarized in our own words rather than being quotes: The series features “musical performances that explore the innermost feelings of its characters” as they “break out into song and (sometimes) dance”. According to Cinemablend, the show “cleverly tackles pent-up emotions and storylines through song”. Schazjmd (talk) 15:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

For the record, I aree with Schazjmd: If readers want to find out what other sources say about this series, they can go to those other sources. For our purposes, using our own wording to describe and detail the information in question is more appropriate. When the wording from any one source is repeated more than twice, the use thereof borders on an ad nauseum level. I'd even extend that to say that any cited source, where possible, should only be directly quoted once, if that can reasonably and feasibly be done. There's always a way to make that work. Just my two cents here, for whatever they might be worth to those who read this, and coming from one who has almost 14 years of Wikipedia experience. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I have zero problems with quotes being replaced with equally well-written content that conveys the same information. Gleeanon409 (talk) 05:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, let's start wordsmithing a replacement. Here's a start, feel free to modify:

Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist is an American musical comedy-drama television series created by Austin Winsberg that premiered on January 7, 2020, on NBC. The series stars Jane Levy as Zoey Clarke, a computer programmer who discovers she has the ability to hear the innermost thoughts of people expressed through songs. Each episode features multiple song-and-dance numbers that develop the storyline.

Schazjmd (talk) 13:22, 8 May 2020 (UTC)