Talk:Zsa Zsa Gabor/Archive 1

Archive 1

Apocrypha

The article reads "In her biography, she claims her love life began at an early age in Ankara,Turkey, reportedly with a May-December affair with the fifty-one-year-old Kemal Atatürk, ruler of Turkey, to whom she lost her virginity at the age of fifteen; she was at the time married to Berhan Belge."

This is unclear. First, it is stated previously in the article that she was born in 1917 and married Belge in 1937, making her 20 at the time of their marriage. So is the anecdote trying to say she was really 15 and married? Granted, when dealing with Zsa Zsa, the whole page might as well be entitled apocrypha. Who knows if that's even her real birth date or when she got married. I just think the article should be consistent.Saucybetty 01:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The sources I found said it was Jolie who was "Miss Hungary" in 1936. So was it the ~35-year-old Jolie or the ~19-year-old Zsa Zsa? -- isis 08:54 Nov 29, 2002 (UTC)

Yes it definately was Jolie the mother who was Miss Hungary . My family remembered this fact . She must have been 35/40 at the time and ALSO lied about her age as she was said to look ALOT younger . She agreed with Zsa Zsa saying she was Miss Hungary to further her career . The mother always pushed the daughters to be famous and lived through their success and notoriety always having had the frustrated ambition herself to be a big star which given the breaks and being in the right place at the right time and mixing in the right circles ( which she wasn't until too old ) she could have been much more than the daughters who were only ever minor celebrities at most . Jolie was far more beautiful than any of the daughters all her life and was simply stunning when younger . Apparently she also had a fabulous voice . Those are recollections of my family . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.137.30.26 (talk) 02:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It was Zsa Zsa for whom it is claimed with some consistency. Though I suppose Jolie might have claimed it on her resume at some point... (the Gabors had LOTS of stories to tell about their past and they weren't all compatible)... If anyone could find a list of Miss Hungarys it would be interesting, because various stories have Zsa Zsa either winning Miss Hungary in 1936, or coming in second in 1936 (and later claiming to have won), or winning in 1936 but having to resign the title for being underage. -- Someone else 17:45 Nov 29, 2002 (UTC)

I suspect that the likely explanation was that Zsa Zsa entered the Miss Hungary contest, came in second, emigrated to the US, exaggerated on her resumé, and her claim to have won the contest was simply accepted without fact-checking. Then someone checked, found out she wasn't in the list of Miss Hungarys, asked why, and was told the "I came in first, but was forced to resign because I was underage" story, which had the additional advantage of taking 3 years off her age. But that's just my guess. In the meantime, I'll change the assertion in the article from an assertion about truth to an assertion about her allegation. <G> -- Someone else 18:59 Nov 29, 2002 (UTC)

Zsa Zsa seems far more probable than her old mother, and only a couple of sites seem to support the Jolie theory. The IMDb site has Jolie born in 1894, and living to age 103. IIRC Zsa Zsa was always coy about her age. The disqualification story seems to be a favorite of trivia pages and would support a birth in 1921. Her first marriage was in 1937. Would she also have been inclined to lie about her age to get married? I agree that it would help to have a list of the Misses Hungary (pluralization?) because I don't find any of the quickly available information sources (including IMDb) to be reliable on these points. -- So what's new on the Net? :-) Eclecticology 19:30 Nov 29, 2002 (UTC)

Current husband

Since when is hubby Fred the "Duke of Saxony" as http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021130/REPPY-3/International/international/internationalBriefsHeadline_temp/3/3/5/ says? My favorite of the Zsa Zsa stories on the accident was the one that said her age was "estimated to be 85" -- with the Gabors, that's about as close as one comes to a fact, isn't it? -- isis 01:08 Dec 1, 2002 (UTC)

Oy, and that's Reuters, and they have him as Prince of Anhalt as well. You'd think they would do some elementary fact-checking, but apparently...not. I love the idea of an estimated age... though it makes me think of a fossil or something that needs to be carbon dated<G>. -- Someone else 01:22 Dec 1, 2002 (UTC)

For William Addams Reitwiesner's words on the subject of Frederick's "Herzog zu Sachsen" name, see an alt.talk.royalty posting of his dated 05 Jul 1996, here. He's generally a reliable chap, isn't he? So what does this make Frederick's full surname, post-adoption? "Prinz von Anhalt, Herzog zu Sachsen"? Or something even longer...? -- Oliver Pereira 01:55 Dec 1, 2002 (UTC)

Yes, I'd believe WAR gladly, but I bet he'd might give this one a second thought. Zsa Zsa's husband was adopted by a FEMALE Anhalt, and they are not Herzogin. You can't transmit a title if you don't have it, and she didn't have it. As to the full surname, I'd bet it was "Prinz von Anhalt"... but someone would have to look at the paperwork to be sure. It COULD be "Prinz von Anhalt, Herzog von Sachsen", but it's certainly wrong for Reuters to call him Prince Frederick von Anhalt. -- Someone else

No matter what, he's not "Herzog von Sachsen", at most "Herzog zu Sachsen", since he's not a member of the "ruling" family. And you're right, someone else, the Prinzessin was not a Herzogin, so she can't pass on that name/title. Maria Auguste was a Princess of Anhalt, and also, through her marriage to a son of the emperor, a Princess of Germany and Preussen. By adopting Robert, she "passed on" only her name, which is "Prinz/essin von Anhalt". And he has no rights to the "titel" since adoption does not confer "blood". YggdrasilsRoot 19:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Even assuming he bought the Sachsen name in the adoption, not just the Anhalt name, I thought everyone agreed all he had was the name, not the office/title. That is, you can name your kid "Holy R. Emperor" but that won't make him the owner of those Crown Jewels in Vienna. -- isis 02:48 Dec 1, 2002 (UTC)

Yup, and getting that nice 'von' name especially won't gain entry into the nobility, which probably irks him no end<G> -- Someone else

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:41, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

How do you say Zsa Zsa?

--220.238.44.174 09:01, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

The "Zs" sound is like the end of the English "J" (as in "jam" or "jazz") without the part that sounds like a "D". So d'Zsa d'Zsa Gabor would sound like Ja Ja Gabor. Eje211 04:29, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

That's an awkward way to describe it. It's the last sound in beige, but with an "ah" afterwards. Matt Deres 02:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Deres is correct. I speak Hungarian, and the "Zs"-sound is like the "g" in "beige, or like "je" in French, which means "I." Incidentally, ZZ's original real name, Sari, is pronouned "Shah'ree," since the letter "s" alone, is pronouned as english "sh." The sound for English "s" is "sz" in Hungarian. 66.108.7.225 (talk) 06:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth

How old is Zsa Zsa Gabor now?

As of February 6, if 1917 is her real birth year (and intend to find out), 2007 she will be 90. According to her marriage date posted on this article, that would put Zsa Zsa's birth year at 1922. Zsa Zsa is pronounced like Zsha Zsha..you actually hear the z when you say it. I am still debating on what the pronunciation of Eva Gabors name. It is typically pronounced both ways, but which did they call her, or which did she prefer. Most people pronounce it like Ava, but if it were, wouldn't that be her name? I like it as Eva though too, (with a long e).-an editor of the article.

The name "Eva" in Hungarian is always pronounced "A-vuh," similar to Ava Gardner. It's never pronouned Eva, except in the United States. And also, in Hungarian, every word, proper name, etc. is stressed on the first syllable. Hence, in Hungary, "Gabor" is pronounced GAH-bohr. And since a person's name is generally given with last name first, ZsaZsa would be known as "GAH-bor ZHA-zha." Considering the frivolity of these celebrities--the first original celebrities--"Famous for being famous"--it's somewhat ironic that a lesson in Hungarian linguistics is required just to pronounce their names properly. 66.108.7.225 (talk) 06:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth (or Roth Allen)

Ja Ja Gabor

-G

Re: How Old is Zsa Zsa:

I would say 1917, i mean for years she claimed she was born in 1930. Which would have made her like 14 or 15 when she gave birth to her daughter Francesca Hilton which i have a hard time believing. We also must remember, that although the Gabors were truly awesome. I am personally a huge fan! They loved to fabricate facts, For the longest time Jolie (mama gabor) claimed she was born in 1900 which in reality 1896 or within a couple years. As you can even testify by reading her book. And Jolie's assistant in writing her autobio famed Cindy Adams, had said that when she first arrived they had all of this religious paraphanalia around, she said something to the lines of your not of that sect. One of Jolie's daughters forgot if it was Zsa Zsa or Eva was marrying a man soon, and she said my daughters fiancee is of that religion so now we are of that religion. They didn't care what they said, they always changed facts. That is why they are so huge of gay icons. They were fabulous, they were divas they didn't care what anyone said. It was all about keeping themself looking fabulous in the publics eye. Hence why since Zsa Zsa's string of health issues the past 7 years, she no longer goes out. Because she wants to be remembered for who she was, not for her current physical state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.238.203 (talk) 21:39, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

~CJ

Gypsy ancestry

Does anybody know if she has Gypsy Ansestry? I am questioning that too. They have so many gypsy recipes in "Jolie Gabors Family Cookbook"..and Jolie has a picture somewhere that i also own of her being lulled by a gypsy son/lullaby. I really don't know..just providing more info. 71.193.130.49 (talk) 00:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

"Quotes" section

The "Quotes" section is unsourced, sprawling and unencyclopedic. Unless anyone raises any objections, I propose deleting it altogether. Goodnightmush 01:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the section, particularly as she has an entry at Wikiquote which was already in the External Links section. Goodnightmush 00:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Please keep the quotes. They're wonderful. Michelle

Why is the shopping quote bowlderized? According to the manual of style, "profanity should either appear in its full form or not at all". The current form doesn't conceal the intended word from anyone old enough to read the sentence. Cleduc 19:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Gabor Family Favorite Perfume in 1968

I am looking for the perfume that was billed as the Gabor Families Favorite Perfume in 1968, It is dark in color and smells very sultry, I love it. can anyone tell me what the name is or if it is still in existance? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.115.151 (talk) 00:27, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it is Florence Gunnarson No 67

I am disputing the authenticity of the Official Gabor Family Website

I have serious doubts that the Official Gabor Family Website is endorsed or authorized by Zsa Zsa Gabor or anyone in her family, First let me point out that the site is hosted on a free webhosting service using a subdomain, I really don't think that the Zsa Zsa would ever use a free webhosting service, it's too tacky even for her and second NO WHERE on the site does it indicate that it is OFFICIAL or endorse or authorized by Zsa Zsa or her family, The author of the site also writes personal messages to Zsa Zsa which really wouldn't be appropriate if it were indeed an official site. Therefore I am removing the word OFFICIAL from the External link until such time as it can be legally proven to be an OFFICIAL site. Simon Bar Sinister (talk) 03:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I am the webmaster of the site and it is not affiliated with the Gabor Family in any ways whatsoever. I do not know who linked it onto this site as "official" but it is not official by any means. Solely a fan site about the Gabor Sisters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmcb06 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing this up. Simon Bar Sinister (talk) 20:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Zsa Zsa, Ataturk, and date of birth

This is my very first time on Wikipedia. If I'm putting this in the wrong place, please be kind and let me know. I want to be respectful of the process, about which I know very little.

It's very difficult to separate fact from fiction in Zsa Zsa's account of her life and amours. However, I'll give it a try:

1) Her date of birth. The Wiki entry gives the year as 1917. As far as I can tell, this is not correct. She says she won the Miss Hungary contest but was disqualified because she was 15. Later that summer, she says, she appeared in the premiere of Richard Tauber's The Singing Dream. In neither of her memoirs does she tell the year. But this date is easily verifiable: "The Singing Dream" premiered in Vienna on 31 August 1934. You can check this date in any biography of Richard Tauber. If Zsa Zsa was 15 at that time, as she says, then she was born in 1919.

2) Her affair with Ataturk. This is a tough one. For all the facts that I've been able to muster, please see my six-part series, "The Pasha & the Gypsy" at [1]. Bottom line: I think it probably happened. But it's a long series, and I can't possibly summarize it here. So far the only people who have read this series are people interested in Turkish history. I would love it if Zsa Zsa aficionados had a look as well.Idesfred (talk) 07:28, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Migration

I don't know where else to put this but her article should read She immigrated to the United States in 1941, or She emigrated from Hungary in 1941. 68.198.206.51 (talk) 23:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)Christine

The Prinz von Anhalt name

Prinz von Anhalt is a surname only and not a royal title, so the feminine form of 'Prinzessin' is improperly applied. It would be akin to stating that because of Stephen King's surname, that his wife should be called Tabitha Queen. It has commonly been found that there is confusion of the surname for a title, as Prinz von Anhalt does translate literally as "Prince of Anhalt" and because of the confusing way to which it was adopted in allusion to an actual princess and daughter of The Duke of Anhalt. For more information on the name, and how it was adopted, see Frédéric Prinz von Anhalt. Please be careful when using cites and other information that concerns the name. Xanderliptak (talk) 08:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

- Actually , it is properly applied. In other cultures, last names are sometimes changed to the correct gender form if it is for a female or male. (Ie: in Russian, father's last name: Mikhalov, daughter's last name: Mikhailova, son's last name: Mikhailov) If you think about it, if you were correct, the husband's last name would really have to be "Prinzessin von Anhalt" being that he was adopted by Princess Marie Auguste, and her last name was Prinzessin von Anhalt, and not prinz von anhalt. Your error is in applying american naming customs (the stephen king exmaple) to a german name.The Stephen King example you give is correct, but that is an english name and not a german name. I believe he is still is a german national, I'm not sure, either way, I think the name Prinzessing von Anhalt is correctly applied, at least in german.- ANDRES 22:14 , 24 July 2010 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.9.245 (talk)

in Russian father's first name (not last)24.200.47.126 (talk) 02:47, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, in Russia, women take up feminine forms of names, and men the masculine form. But not in Germany. A name is a name, it does not change from gender to gender. Also, it is important to note that Frédéric Prinz von Anhalt was adopted by a Princess of Anhalt, not by Ms Princess-of-Anhalt. You are confusing her title with his surname. Frédéric paid the princess money in his older years to be adopted by her, after which he changed his name to her title (in the masculine form) to lay a false claim on that title. This was some ill-begotten scheme to try and claim ennoblement or royal blood, though not legal under modern German law that forbids such titles. Even under older laws, this would not have been a legal way to pass a title. A sovereign would need to bestow title, and adoption holds no requirement to do so. Η936631 (talk) 08:35, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

You must also keep in mind that once the royal titles were abolished in Germany, the royal families still keep there's as surnames. Look for the current German "Princesses", their last name includes "Prinzessin" not "Prinz". For example, Alexandra Prinzessin von Hannover --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 14:00, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

How many languages does Zsa Zsa Gabor speak?

Since she is a Hungarian-born American, she obviously speaks Hungarian and English. What more? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.115.72.20 (talk) 02:24, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

She also speaks French and German. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.153.236.219 (talk) 05:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Gabor marriages

The Gabor sisters were married and divorced so many times that their Mother once complained that she seemed to getting a new son-in-law every week end and was losing track of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.154 (talk) 12:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Is this People magazine or an encyclopedia? How is this important?96.239.94.159 (talk) 04:57, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

"Zsa Zsa was the only Gabor sister to bear a child"

Is her sibling's reproductive history something worth mentioning, especially worded in that manner? The whole rape-thing in the following sentences would maybe deserve the space left by deleting that. Did the Hiltons, inluding her daughter, respond to her claim? --1-5%,Mathematician (talk) 19:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Religion

What Religion is Zsa Zsa? Drudgereport is claiming she is receiving last rites. Why Wiki doesn't include a person's religion or no religion is beyond me. 71.193.130.49 (talk) 00:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Find a source and then well see what it says.--Jojhutton (talk) 00:33, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Where's the information from that is is Jewish (She is listed as a Jewish actor)? Receiving the last rites, this is something, that I only know by Roman Catholics. Is she Catholic? Then the religion should be changed. --Holger1974 (talk) 06:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there's any full-out knowledge of her religion, but she is receiving last rites (Roman Catholic). Maybe the marriage to Hilton brought a switch to Catholicism about, but I've no idea if she ever had a faith or has one now. I removed that odd sentence beginning "so much so" (as if someone was trying to claim her insane by the last rites thing, wee bit of weaseling). Filastin (talk) 15:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

PS, author who added it User talk:Josh Rumage, probably self-explanatory.Filastin (talk) 15:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

This would seem to indicate that the Gabors were Jewish by birth. She must have become a Catholic later on. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 18:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Should have looked harder, long week! Filastin (talk) 14:24, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

There is no reason why wiki should include a person's faith, or sexuality. It would be beyond me if they did.Dollvalley (talk) 10:58, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

When known, it should be included on a person's biography because it is biographical info. Jim Michael (talk) 21:30, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

The Hungarian version of Wikipedia says, both her parents were Jewish. Yet, on either the Merv Griffin or the Johnny Carson show I once heard her say in her distinct Hungarian/British accent: "Dahling I'm a catholic girl". Did she convert?

Eravian (talk) 13:21, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

The citations given here imply that. Does the Hungarian article include any sources about it? --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:11, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

The Hungarian Wiki page cites no references, in fact it is tagged with a "no references" template. This is what it says about her father: Her father Vilmos Gabor was a soldier, died in 1962 and is buried in the Kozma street Jewish cemetery (in Budapest). It also says the original name of her father was Grün.

Eravian (talk) 15:44, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Recent health?

I'd like so recommend that it would be changed, Perhaps "Health history?"

It probably belongs simply under Personal Life. When she does die, a lot of that will seem unnecessarily long. 12.162.122.5 (talk) 18:58, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I know that death is inevitable for all of us, but I don't like to be so morbid, as to be discussing before the fact. The section needs to and will be trimmed down, in its own good time. I like to look at information as if I am reading it 20 to 30 years after the facts, and see what works and what doesn't. Using the term "recent", most assuredly doesn't work.--Jojhutton (talk) 20:37, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Career

The article seems very light on Ms Gabor's career, only really majoring on her personal life and public incidents in very old age. Is that all she is really famous for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.58.157 (talk) 22:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Rfc: Moved from article - medical minutia

An editor is restoring the material after it was moved here for discussion. They will not provide any rationale. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 04:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Moved from article as the material would be difficult to trim and paraphrase. It gives undue attention to excessive medical details during her later years and is out of place. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 03:08, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Health

In 2002, Gabor was a passenger in an automobile crash requiring months of therapy. She suffered a stroke in 2005, leaving her in temporarily critical condition, where she also underwent heartsurgery.

On July 17, 2010, Gabor was taken to the hospital after she fell out of bed while watching television at her home in Bel Air, Calif. She suffered several broken bones. She had a successful hip replacement surgery on July 19, 2010.

On July 23, 2010, there were conflicting reports on Gabor's recovery. Gabor's present husband, Frédéric Prinz von Anhalt, told reporters that as of July 23, 2010, her condition has become more critical and that she has not been responding to any human contact due in large part to a concussion she suffered when she fell out of her bed. The same day, Gabor's daughter, Francesca, denied reports that her mother was critically ill and not responding to human contact. Hilton issued her statement while visiting Gabor in the hospital. "She is not in a coma. She is not on any kind of death watch. She is responsive and on medications. All vital signs are still going strong, and she is talking," Hilton said in a statement to Reuters.

She was discharged from the hospital on August 11; however, on August 13, Gabor returned to the hospital due to bleeding and pain. On August 15, 2010, she was in a critical condition after the removal of two blood clots, and a priest was called to the hospital to administer last rites. On August 16, 2010 she left the hospital after declining to undergo any further surgery, deciding instead to "spend her final days at home." On August 29, 2010, Gabor declined further hospital treatment and was administered her last rites. On the morning of August 31, 2010, Gabor was found "unresponsive" by her husband and rushed to the hospital, though reports have stated that she was receiving treatment for flu-like symptoms.

Comment

In response to a request at WP:BLPN, I've scaled back the section considerably. For comparson with the version pasted above, the version I wound up with is as follows:

Health

In 2002, Gabor was a passenger in an automobile crash, and was hospitalized for several weeks. In 2005, she suffered a stroke, underwent surgery to remove an arterial blockage, and returned home a few weeks later. In 2007, she had surgery related to her previous stroke, and then underwent surgery to treat an infection.

In July 2010, Gabor was taken to the hospital after she fell at home, requiring hip replacement. She was discharged from the hospital but soon returned, and was in critical condition after the removal of two blood clots, at which point she requested last rites. On August 16, 2010 she left the hospital, but was in and out of the hospital for several months thereafter.

Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia needs to be more accurate

She was hospitalized Jan. 2, 2011, and will have a portion of her leg amputated after cancerous lesions started appearing on one of her legs, as gangrene was imminent.[34]

Should say that it is a below the knee amputation, not "a portion". Hakkapeliitta (talk) 16:24, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Should say that it is due to a blood clot and infection - not cancerous lesions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.183.109.151 (talk) 08:42, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_people_zsa_zsa_gabor Assuming that link is still active, it has no mention of cancer, just an infection post knee replacement 71.198.209.193 (talk) 08:10, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Someone seems to be trying to use Yahoo Mail for a citation

This 2010-08-15 edit adds a citation that seems to try and launch an individual's Yahoo Mail account, which really doesn't seem useful as a reference. Hopefully a reg can find something to replace it with. (This also should be fixed.) 76.121.3.85 (talk) 01:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)