Talk:Zuihitsu

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Zuihitsu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100609030602/http://www.ency-japan.com:80/ to http://www.ency-japan.com/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:28, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Kun'yomi reading??

I am confused by the claim that 随筆 can be read as ふでにしたがう. That would normally be written 筆に随う. I am only a Japanese-language novice but I have never seen or heard of a Kun'yomi reading that reads elements in a different order from how they are written or adds particles and case endings to the pronunciation only; it is normally a one-to-one, character-by-character calque (as in, したがふで). If there really is an established reading "ふでにしたがう" for "随筆" it would presumably be a kind of Jukujikun, but I can't find any documentation of this reading that doesn't derive from this Wikipedia article. It's not mentioned in Wiktionary, Japanese Wikipedia, or anywhere else that I can find; there's just an essay "考えるヒント２" by Hideo Kobayashi where he *glosses the meaning* of 随筆 as 筆に随う, but this is not at all the same thing as a Kun'yomi reading. I think someone has gotten confused here. 74.12.134.40 (talk) 17:24, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

It would be read that way in the Kanbun-kundoku method, for more see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanbun#Example

I do think the wording here is pretty poor -- there is a difference between the term used here "kun yomi," a part of modern Japanese, and "kanbun kundoku" which is a historical practice of reading/converting Chinese texts into Japanese. "The provenance of the term is ultimately Chinese" is only true to the extent that any kango (word using on-yomi) loosely originates in Chinese. The adoption of the Chinese alphabet in Japanese happened extremely early on, and much of the vocabulary using Chinese characters were created in Japan (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasei-kango). Japanese encyclopedia source here https://kotobank.jp/word/%E9%9A%8F%E7%AD%86-83128 suggests the first use of the term as a title comes in 1693 in Ichijo Kanera's "Touzai Zuihitsu."

The information about the meaning of the characters and the idea that the term originates from the idea "fude ni shitagau" is useful for explaining the concept, but the wording regarding Chinese and Japanese readings should be revised.

FWIW, and I have seen Japanese sources suggest it originates in the introduction to Yoshida's Essays in Idleness (1330-32), but reading the intro gives no clear example of the usage.

Also, the term zuihitsu in Japanese is often used interchangeably to describe what we call the "essay" in English (from Montaigne's French) -- for evidence, the Japanese page for zuihitsu co-links to the English page for "essay," not this page. Perhaps this should be mentioned? 65.88.88.177 (talk) 20:27, 30 July 2021 (UTC)