Talk:Zungeni Mountain skirmish

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 10:52, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

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Death of Drury-Lowe's adjutant

• ... that immediately after Colonel Drury-Lowe reassured his men "You are all right, [the Zulu bullets] are all passing over your heads" his adjutant, sat next to him, was shot and killed (pictured)? Source: "Lt Frith was on the left with the Col and the latter was just saying "You are all right men You are all right they are all passing over your heads" when a bullet pierced the heart of our poor Adjt. He only exclaimed "Oh Im shot" and dropped dead off his horse" from pages 87-88 of: Clammer, David (1980). "The Recollections of Miles Gissop: With the 17th Lancers in Zululand". Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research. 58 (234): 78–92. ISSN 0037-9700. and "the young adjutant of the 17th Lancers, Frederick Cokayne Frith, was killed by a shot, as is shown in our front-page illustration, falling from his horse, between Colonel Drury Lower, who was at his right hand, and Mr. Francis, Special Correspondent of the Times, who rode on his left" from: "Zulu War Illustrations". Illustrated London News. No. 2094. 2 August 1879. p. 109.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Luidia savignyi

Moved to mainspace by Dumelow (talk). Self-nominated at 18:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Very interesting new article, hook source on JSTOR verified thanks to WP:LIBRARY. The text there doesn't use a comma ("You are all right men You are all right they are all passing over your heads") but MOS:PMC seems apt for readability here; no meaning of the quote is changed (hey, I've got to point something out haven't I!?). I had to look up if we have an article for adjutant, and noticed this isn't linked in either the hook or the article. I think we certainly need a link in the article, but I think one in the hook is at the nominator's discretion. The hook is currently 195 chars; if we need to trim the hook I think we could lose "sat next to him" and, if necessary, reword to "[the bullets]". MIDI (talk) 20:35, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the review MIDI, I had linked adjutant in the main body but not the lead. Now done in both; I'd rather not link it in the hook but can be done if necessary. I quite like "sat next to him" as it makes the connection between the incidents closer, but happy to discuss trimming if needed. The hook is within the 200 characters hard limit - Dumelow (talk) 07:04, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Deferring to your judgement as nominator; there's nothing here to stop this being approved . Length problems, if any, can be raised by promoting editor at the point this gets to prep/queues... MIDI (talk) 11:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Modified ALT0 to T:DYK/P5

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Zungeni Mountain skirmish/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 08:45, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

I'll take this one, comments to follow in due course. Zawed (talk) 08:45, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Firstly, it is good to see an article from one of Queen Victoria's "Little Wars" here at GA. I picked up on a few things, but a lot of it is simply about links and slight clarity/contextual tweaks for ease of reading, as otherwise it is in pretty good order. My comments:

Lead

• link colonel, levies, irregular horse (this could be to Irregular military), Major-General, squadron, Lieutenant

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• Maybe add a qualifier to the first sentence, perhaps "...in what is now South Africa"

Good point, done - Dumelow (talk) 08:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• Perhaps delete the "regular" from "regular British cavalry"? I think if using "irregular", then any units not identified as such will inherently be understood to be regular units.

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Background

• link Zululand? For context, I wonder if it may be helpful to provide some written context for what constitutes Zululand, even if it is simply just referred to its modern day location in South Africa.

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:44, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• Chelmsford relieved the Siege of Eshowe...: Siege should be lower case here. I also suggest adding, perhaps in the previous paragraph that the British were besieged at Eshowe to provide more context.

Good point, I've tried to be a little more descriptive about what the Left and Right Columns were doing - Dumelow (talk) 08:44, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• The reinforced Centre Column, including the cavalry brigade,...: To provide better context for the Centre Column, perhaps rephrase to something like, "Following the fighting at Isandlwana, the survivors of the Centre Column were reinforced with the cavalry brigade..."

Yes, done - Dumelow (talk) 08:44, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link Ulundi, irregular horse, any ranks on first mention

Think I've got these - Dumelow (talk) 08:44, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• had moved forwards...: forwards should be forward

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:44, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Skirmish

• ...included a squadron of Baker's Horse...: link squadron here

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:51, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• Marshall received news that a sizeable Zulu force...: to me this implies Marshall was the commander of 2nd Division but the background sectoon says Newdigate was. Also is this Zulu force that of the first skirmish or another group of Zulu?

Good point. There a little more detail in the sources and I've tried to clarify this section a bit - Dumelow (talk) 08:51, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Aftermath

• Suggest integrating the first sentence of this section into the last paragraph of the previous section; some parts of it are redundant and what is left would work better there I think.

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• link levies

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• returned to Natal, others were kept: suggest "returned to Natal, while others were kept"

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Other stuff

• Generally sources look fine. Place of publication for the Laband and Smith books

Added - Dumelow (talk) 08:56, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• The images look to be OK although there is an "invalid parameter" field in the licensing section for the Zungeni map image. I think the Death of lt frith should be able to be moved to Commons as Melton Prior died in 1910 and tags amended accordingly.

Something went wrong with the derivative image script at Commons, I've fixed the licensing on the map. I think I left the Frith image here as I was unsure of where the copyright sat with the engraver - Dumelow (talk) 14:43, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

• No dupe links

That's it for me, placing the review on hold for now. Zawed (talk) 03:25, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Zawed, sorry just came back to this and realise I must have lost my response and ping. I think I've addressed everything above. If you could check and let me know, many thanks - Dumelow (talk) 14:43, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

This looks all good to me so, as I believe that the article meets the necessary criteria, am passing this as a GA. Great work. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:59, 29 November 2022 (UTC)