Template:Did you know nominations/2024 Netball Nations Cup

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Launchballer talk 22:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

2024 Netball Nations Cup

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• ... that at the 2024 Netball Nations Cup, Georgia and Kate Heffernan became the first sisters to play for New Zealand in the same team at the same time? Source:
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: Georgia Heffernan is also a new article. The Heffernan sisters became the third set of sisters to play international netball for New Zealand. The first set were their mother and aunt, Annette Heffernan and Maxine Blomquist. However they never played together.

Created by Djln19 (talk). Self-nominated at 16:06, 10 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/2024 Netball Nations Cup; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Hello, @Djln19: The first things I've noticed is that the article is not long enough for DYK. But this is easily fixed by converting the list under "Debuts and milestones" into prose form. I will begin my full review shortly. ~~lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 17:15, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
• Sources should be given for the match officials' associations. In addition to prosifying the milestones as above, basic organizational information should be summarized in the lead, such as The group stage consists of three rounds, the first two of which were held 20-21 Jan in OVO, London; and the third one, playoffs, and grand final were held 27-28 Jan in the First Direct Arena, Leeds. In the hook, "for New Zealand in the same team" sounds a little redundant, would it be possible to cut it down to

  ALT1: ... that at the 2024 Netball Nations Cup, Georgia and Kate Heffernan became the first sisters to play for New Zealand at the same time?

• Article: new enough, neutral, BLP-compliant, copyvio-free according to Earwig, complete and presentable; Hook: cited, interesting, QPQ not required. Best wishes, ~~lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 20:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC); edited 16:06, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
• Thanks @Lol1VNIO: for your feedback. I'm not sure the article can be expanded any further. I could not find any other references for the match officials other than one included. Plus, I don't think we need a long winded explanation on how group stages work. They are widely used in numerous sports, they don't really need explaining. Possibly could add more about the venues. Your version of the hook is ok with me. Djln Djln19 (talk) 20:17, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
  • Hello, @Djln19: The article currently stands at ~1250/1500 required characters because the list at Debuts and milestones is not counted towards the character count. I see a way to artificially expand the article is for you to turn the list into running text while also avoiding prose timelines. Due to verifiability concerns, you should also remove the Association column of the match officials if there are no sources for it. Best wishes, ~~lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 19:13, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
    • Experienced reviewer requested: Should the rules be bent? The article contains 1242 characters of prose according to WP:DYKcheck. A bulleted list at section Debuts and milestones would have easily put the article's character count over the 1500 threshold, but WP:DYKPROSE states to exclude wikitext, templates, lists, tables... I've suggested Djln19 to prosify the list, but on their talk page (perma) they believed it would turn the section into a jumble of facts, making it difficult for readers to follow and that keeping the list retains consistency with the format of other similar articles. Should we make an exception here because the list does contain text? ~~lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 20:43, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Tempting, but that's quite a while off. Why don't you try summarising the debuts and milestones in the lede? (As a test, this comes out at 1687 characters, though I haven't bothered referencing anything.)--Launchballer 08:53, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

This is a bit of a weird case, but my gut says no. The debuts and milestones section can easily be turned into a prose section. If there's an issue with a "jumble of facts", that can be solved through a rewrite and copyedit. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:20, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I have to note that, while occasionally other rules get bent per IAR, the 1500 character requirement is one of the strictest ones and from experience has almost never been given IAR exemptions. Indeed, this is why list articles, even those that technically have a lot of text like plot summaries, still need 1500 or more characters of regular prose. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:22, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I did wonder about spreading that section across the article, with the 20 January events next to the Round 1 stage, the 21 January events next to the Round 2 stage and so on.--Launchballer 09:25, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• If the only way the nomination can go forward is for it to comply with a ridiculous set of guidelines that have absolutely nothing to do with whether the DYK fact is interesting or not, I'd rather withdraw the nomination. How is length of article relevant ? Why are lists excluded ? None of these rules make any sense to me. Thanks for your time guys but I think the DYK project has lost focus on what it's meant to be about. Djln19 Djln19 (talk) 20:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• Hook interestingness is only one aspect to a nomination. The article itself also has to be of a sufficient quality or standard. That includes being of a particular length. As mentioned by Launchballer above, the list part could easily be turned into prose in some way with some copyediting, so it isn't like it's a surmountable issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:16, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• Djln19, there is a reason we exclude lists, because then that would include external links sections, see also sections, and other ancillary content. Unlike those, your list could easily be turned into prose outside of bullets, is already cited, and is key content to the page. You would have just under 2,000 characters RPS by rephrasing it this way: On 20 January, Georgia Heffernan made her senior debut for New Zealand against Australia. With her sister, Kate Heffernan, already an established member of the team, the Heffernan sisters now became the third set of sisters to play international netball for New Zealand. The first set were their mother and aunt, Annette Heffernan and Maxine Blomquist. However, the Heffernan sisters are the first sisters to actually play in the same team at the same time. Amorangi Malesala and Tayla Earle made their senior debuts for New Zealand on 27 January against England.
  On 21 January, Helen Housby made her 100th senior appearance for England against Australia. Sarah Klau made her 50th senior appearance for Australia against Uganda on 27 January. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:28, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• @Djln19: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 18:38, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• @Z1720: This nomination has been withdrawn by myself, the nominee. I've stated this several times. The terms are just ridiculous. You can read my reasons above. Djln19 Djln19 (talk) 20:22, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Withdrawn, per the statement above. Z1720 (talk) 20:23, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

References