- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by BorgQueen (talk) 01:20, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
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Agnes Weinrich
- ... that Agnes Weinrich was on the jury that selected the artworks for the first modernist exhibition? Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150113000241/http://www.tfaoi.com/aa/9aa/9aa612.htm
Improved to Good Article status by Delabrede (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 21:04, 2 November 2022 (UTC).
Expansive work on an interesting life, GA on plenty of good sources, subscription and offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. The hook is a bit too concise for my taste, - could you offer the location, firstly because the German-sounding name might suggest Austria, and secondly because I doubt it was the first worldwide. For the article - not for DYK but for FA perhaps: the galleries are too rich, drop some or split it more with more commentary. The juxtaposition of her work to that of others gets lost if not pointed out, and the fence thing is just too small to work within a gallery. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know exactly where the modernist exhibtion talks about so I'm going to ping @Delabrede: to see if they know. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
- Onegreatjoke: In 1927 the Provincetown Art Association complied with a demand made by the artist Ross Moffett and others to hold two separate art exhibitions each year, one for artists considered to be conservative and the other for artists considered to be modernist. The 2011 essay by James R. Bakker, cited in the Weinrich article, says that Weinrich was one of the jurors for that exhibition. Moffett wrote in his memoir, Art in Narrow Streets: "The first Modernistic Exhibition, as it was called in the catalog, opened July 2, 1927 and closed July 25. The committee in charge of this exhibition, in reality a jury and hanging committee, consisted of [there follows the names of eleven artists plus Weinrich]." (Kendall Print Company, 1964, p. 48). -- Delabrede (talk) 23:03, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for helping. I am still not convinced that this exhibition was the first one would call "modernist" in the world - as the hook suggests. Certainly in Provincetown, perhaps in the U.S., but for worldwide, I'd suppose in France, uless we argue that it would be called "moderne" or whatever French and not "modernist". - We could just say when and where instead of this "first", placing it early in art history. We don't need a detour to ERRORS. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
- The 1927 exhibition in Provincetown could never be considered the first modern show in the US (much less the world). The generally accepted view is that the famous Armory Show of 1913 was the first (with the necessary qualifications "of its size" and "given its lasting significance"). The terms "modern" and "modernist" are unprecise. In late 19th c. America, the term was generally applied to the American artists who rejected the academic style in favor of Impressionism. In the early 20th c. it was used to describe the group around Robert Henri. Only later was is commonly used in the US to describe works that were influenced by the European trend toward abstraction (another unprecise term, in this case meaning the works of Cézanne, the Cubists, and their like). If the 1927 exhibition in Provincetown has any special significance, it probably lies in its use of the word "modernistic" in its title. Not that it proves anything but put the word in the Google Books Ngram Viewer to see how infrequently it was used before then. The exhibition is described in some detail in this source: The Beginnings of the Provincetown Art Association and Museum (an exhibition catalog, published in 1990 by the museum, and available online from the Provincetown History Project. -- Delabrede (talk) 14:52, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
- English isn't my native language. For me, the hook as written implies "the first ever". Therefore, if the first in her hometown, or whatever, that should be added to not mislead. "could never be considered" - what do we know about the background of our readers? If - as I read in the comment - it's an early occurrence of the word "modernist" in an exhibition title, I suggest say so. And if that is too complicated, how about saying something else about her? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:12, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
- The 1927 exhibition in Provincetown could never be considered the first modern show in the US (much less the world). The generally accepted view is that the famous Armory Show of 1913 was the first (with the necessary qualifications "of its size" and "given its lasting significance"). The terms "modern" and "modernist" are unprecise. In late 19th c. America, the term was generally applied to the American artists who rejected the academic style in favor of Impressionism. In the early 20th c. it was used to describe the group around Robert Henri. Only later was is commonly used in the US to describe works that were influenced by the European trend toward abstraction (another unprecise term, in this case meaning the works of Cézanne, the Cubists, and their like). If the 1927 exhibition in Provincetown has any special significance, it probably lies in its use of the word "modernistic" in its title. Not that it proves anything but put the word in the Google Books Ngram Viewer to see how infrequently it was used before then. The exhibition is described in some detail in this source: The Beginnings of the Provincetown Art Association and Museum (an exhibition catalog, published in 1990 by the museum, and available online from the Provincetown History Project. -- Delabrede (talk) 14:52, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for helping. I am still not convinced that this exhibition was the first one would call "modernist" in the world - as the hook suggests. Certainly in Provincetown, perhaps in the U.S., but for worldwide, I'd suppose in France, uless we argue that it would be called "moderne" or whatever French and not "modernist". - We could just say when and where instead of this "first", placing it early in art history. We don't need a detour to ERRORS. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
- Onegreatjoke: In 1927 the Provincetown Art Association complied with a demand made by the artist Ross Moffett and others to hold two separate art exhibitions each year, one for artists considered to be conservative and the other for artists considered to be modernist. The 2011 essay by James R. Bakker, cited in the Weinrich article, says that Weinrich was one of the jurors for that exhibition. Moffett wrote in his memoir, Art in Narrow Streets: "The first Modernistic Exhibition, as it was called in the catalog, opened July 2, 1927 and closed July 25. The committee in charge of this exhibition, in reality a jury and hanging committee, consisted of [there follows the names of eleven artists plus Weinrich]." (Kendall Print Company, 1964, p. 48). -- Delabrede (talk) 23:03, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know exactly where the modernist exhibtion talks about so I'm going to ping @Delabrede: to see if they know. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
