Wikipedia

Template:Did you know nominations/Alexina Maude Wildman

< Template:Did you know nominations
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by — Maile (talk) 01:24, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Alexina Maude Wildman

edit
(
)

Created by SkyGazer 512 (talk). Self-nominated at 17:17, 2 December 2018 (UTC).

  • The full review will be to follow, but my preference would be the original hook. Though I think it might be a bit too long and thus would need to be shortened somewhat. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @Narutolovehinata5: I like original hook as well and I do agree that it needs to be shortened. I'm not able to think of many good ways to do so without removing key information, however. Do you have any specific suggestions? I do think we could probably change the first part of the sentence to something like "that Alexina Maude Wildman wrote one of the most widely read columns in The Bulletin at the time," which would shorten it a bit.--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 02:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
What about something like "that Alexina Maude Wildman wrote one of the most widely read columns in The Bulletin, despite editor and co-owner J. F. Archibald's belief that women could not write poetry?" Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:07, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Looks good; added as ALT4 (ALT3, see below). Thanks! With the exception of ALT1, which I don't really like that much, I personally am neutral about the hooks; ALT2 and ALT3 (ALT2) seem(s) sort of quirky and unique, but I do think the part about Archibald's belief that women could not write poetry in ALT4 (ALT3) is nice as well. I'd be fine with whatever the reviewer thinks is best.--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 04:36, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Actually, it seems that I misread the part about the Philip May cartoon. I've removed the hook now and modified the ALT# of the others accordingly. Thanks to Krelnik for pointing that out; it makes a lot more sense that way!--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 13:32, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: Are you still planning on doing a full review? Either way's fine, it would just be nice to know.--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 16:51, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Actually I am. I apologize for the delay, I've just been busy with other things. Just give me a moment. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:04, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
That's fine, there's no rush.--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 00:08, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - The hook fact for ALT4 doesn't have the in-line citation, and the hook is slightly inaccurate: the hook affirms that it was one of the most widely-read columns, but the article states that it was likely to be such.
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: Yes
QPQ: Done.

Overall: My preference is ALT4, but as I more-or-less proposed it, I'll leave the final approval to another editor. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:09, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Added the extra inline cite; the same ref is already cited 3 times in the paragraph, including shortly after the sentence, but I suppose it's better to have too much verification than too less for DYK hooks. I've modified the hooks (ALT0 and ALT3, that is) a bit to better match what the source said per your suggestion, see Special:Diff/872984527. Do you have any more issues or will you go ahead and request a new review for someone uninvolved to approve ALT3 (which you call ALT4 here)?--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 13:50, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
As mentioned above, I'm requesting a new reviewer to see if ALT3 is good or if any of the other proposed hooks are better. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:18, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
I prefer ALT2 (I don't see an ALT4). It took me fancy. VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 09:43, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
@Vincent60030: "ALT4" here would be ALT3; it was originally "ALT4" but got renumbered after an earlier hook was deleted (see above). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:05, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
icic, anyways to reinstate this haha go ALT2! VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 14:27, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
  • We might need a new reviewer here as Vincent has been unable to respond to various requests to return to this nomination. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 07:47, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
  • @Vincent60030, SL93, and Yoninah: I looked over the article and did some editing in terms of paragraphs (for readability), grammar, and long sentences (one of my own writing faults :-). I may have changed things enough to disqualify me from doing a full review. None of the current hooks seems compelling, and several seem vague ("was likely"...). The current ALT4 might be usable, but I'm going to suggest another that might catch attention. I'll add citations in the appropriate places: Hoare states that "To support an enigmatic persona, with her tongue firmly planted in her cheek, Wildman created a name to deliberately keep her readership guessing... she presented herself as much older. Her column was headed by a drawing of an ugly, sour, old woman" Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:28, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
    • ALT5:... that Alexina Maude Wildman, writing for the Australian magazine The Bulletin, disguised her identity by using the pen name "Sappho Smith" and by implying that she was much older than her actual age?
  • @Mary Mark Ockerbloom: Thank you for the copy-edits. Almost everything you did looks really nice. Usually, sometime after I nominate an article for DYK, I'll look over it to make sure the grammar is correct and it reads decently; I did my lookover this time but apparently there was some stuff I didn't catch, so thanks for catching those for me. :-) I personally have never been a fan of two-sentence paragraphs when two of them next to each other are essentially about the same thing; therefore, I think it would be better to have the first two paragraphs of the second section combined. For the lead, although I agree that it doesn't need to have excessive detail, I've always thought of it as a summary of the article rather than only mentioning what someone was notable for. However, these are extremely minor points and I don't think it's worth pursuing; overall, your edits were immense improvements and are much appreciated.
  • ALT5 looks good to me; I think it's interesting. One note about it, however, Hoare says Wildman was, by today’s standards, very young to hold such a position as a regular columnist, and perhaps as a result, she presented herself as much older. This makes it seem like her youngness may have been why she portrayed herself so old, which is why I have in the article Wildman may have portrayed herself as an old woman to contrast her real age. This might need to be addressed for the sake of clarity and correctness. Cheers, --SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 15:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
  • Re: "youngness", that she had a motive for disguising some aspect of herself doesn't negate that it was a form of disguise, so I think the wording could stand as is. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 16:03, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
  • Hi, I saw myself pinged here. I think the newer alts neatly avoid the problem posed by the one that was promoted. ALT5 is ok, but as SkyGazer 512 points out, not entirely accurate. What do you think about:
  • ALT6: ... that Alexina Maude Wildman's biting, sarcastic gossip column in The Bulletin was headed by the cartoon image of an old woman, disguising the fact that Wildman was in her twenties? Yoninah (talk) 18:49, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: I personally like ALT6 a lot. It's accurate and I also think it's nice how it describes what kind of column Wildman wrote, due to how unique it was at the time. I suppose we'll need someone independent to review this.--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 21:26, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Adding icon for new reviewer needed. Yoninah (talk) 21:36, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm partial to ALT6 but it might just be a bit too long. Any way to shorten it further? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
  • I have rechecked the DYYK criteria of age, length, neutrality and policy and am approving ALT6, from which I have removed the word "only". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:16, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Alexina_Maude_Wildman&oldid=887828690"