Template:Did you know nominations/Cancer Diagnostic Probe
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 10:25, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
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Cancer Diagnostic Probe
... that Cancer Diagnostic Probe, an Iran-made medical device, makes breast cancer surgeries very faster?Source: Tehran University of Medical Sciences, News Nano (in Persian)- Reviewed: Erik Fosse
Created by Mhhossein (talk). Self-nominated at 06:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC).
- Comment: the article is currently based on non-WP:MEDRS sources such as research studies and lay press articles. Reliable secondary sources, e.g. medical textbooks or review papers in reputable journals, are required to support medical claims. Spicy (talk) 23:13, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
@Mhhossein: New enough and long enough. QPQ present. But I am quite hesitant about the veracity and the wording (ignoring the grammar issues) of such a bold claim for the hook and whether the sources are sufficient under MEDRS, per above. If the sourcing issue cannot be fixed, this cannot run. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:30, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, thanks for the comment Sammi. I can suggest a toned-down hook given the concerns raised here. As for the medical claims, as mentioned by Spicy, I'll try to find sources or alter the text. --Mhhossein talk 07:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
- Mhhossein, status report? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:46, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie: Sorry for the delay. I have now edited the article for removing the medical claims. Also, I have come up with two new non-medical toned-down hook:
- Mhhossein, status report? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:46, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, thanks for the comment Sammi. I can suggest a toned-down hook given the concerns raised here. As for the medical claims, as mentioned by Spicy, I'll try to find sources or alter the text. --Mhhossein talk 07:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
Alt1: ... that Cancer Diagnostic Probe, an Iran-made medical device, has shorten breast cancer surgery in Iran?Alt2: ... that Cancer Diagnostic Probe is an Iran-made medical device used for breast cancer surgery in Iran?
- Let me know your thoughts, please.--Mhhossein talk 06:28, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
I am opposed to running this article on the mainpage; we should not be endorsing, spreading or advertising on the main page unproven devices, which this is, short of an independent, secondary source. The proposed hooks above do not satisfy. Without a WP:MEDRS-compliant look at this device, we have no way of knowing if it's pure quackery or commercial exploitation. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:15, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- SandyGeorgia: Thanks for the comment and the edits. I should stress that it's not a so-called "unproven device," and even alt2 is solely stating that CDP is being used in Iran, which is not a medical claim per WP:MEDRS. By the way, If you think there's a medical claim on the page or hooks needing reliable medical sources, please let us know. Otherwise, it is bizarre to call the US-patented invention "quackery or commercial exploitation". In what way do you think the hooks "do not satisfy"? --Mhhossein talk 05:51, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
- The MEDRS issues (in the article) have been addressed now. I Oppose Alt1, which makes a medical claim for which there are not MEDRS sources, but I would not oppose Alt2. (Although it could be worried in a less repetitive way.) It is an unproven methodology in terms of secondary reviews, which is what matters for Wikipedia. Re
"it is bizarre to call the US-patented invention 'quackery or commercial exploitation' "
, please re-read exactly what I typed, and not what you (mis)interpreted. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC) - WP:CLOP:
- Source: CDP ... is based on the real-time electrochemical measurement of the hypoxia glycolysis metabolism in pre-cancerous and cancerous lesions in cavity side margins during the surgery.
- Article: electrochemically measures the hypoxia glycolysis metabolism in real-time in pre-cancerous and cancerous lesions in cavity side margins.
- I'm unfamiliar with DYK rules; it's not clear to me whether the character count is met of if the quoted material is supposed to be included in character count. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 09:48, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did not intend to misinterpret you Sandy, thanks again for the edits and the feedback. I have stroke alt1 and tried to address the CLOP issue. @Sammi Brie: Could you please do the final review for alt2? --Mhhossein talk 05:29, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks, looks good on my end (that is, MEDRS; not a DYK person though). Unwatching now, so pls ping me if any followup is needed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 08:42, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Oops, I'm back ... it has been pointed out at WT:MED that https://iactcenter.ir/real-time-cancer-diagnostic-probe/?lang=en is a sales catalogue. A good portion of the article is cited to this source. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:38, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- Welcome back Sandy. I could not find the mentioned discussion at WT:MED but, FYI, iCAT is actually the Iran Advanced Clinical Training (iACT) which is a "subset of Tehran University of Medical Sciences." What's wrong with it? --Mhhossein talk 05:23, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- The discussion is buried in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine#Announcing script RefRenamer: replaces VE numeric refs with reasonable ref names, where I asked Mathglot to run the script to address the dreadful ref names. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 07:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- The discussion Sandy is referring to can be found here. Mathglot (talk) 07:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- Discussed the issue on the article talk page. I'm not sure if Sammi Brie wants to complete the review procedure, now that the MEDRS issues are addressed in the page. --Mhhossein talk 06:50, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- The discussion Sandy is referring to can be found here. Mathglot (talk) 07:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- The discussion is buried in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine#Announcing script RefRenamer: replaces VE numeric refs with reasonable ref names, where I asked Mathglot to run the script to address the dreadful ref names. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 07:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- Welcome back Sandy. I could not find the mentioned discussion at WT:MED but, FYI, iCAT is actually the Iran Advanced Clinical Training (iACT) which is a "subset of Tehran University of Medical Sciences." What's wrong with it? --Mhhossein talk 05:23, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did not intend to misinterpret you Sandy, thanks again for the edits and the feedback. I have stroke alt1 and tried to address the CLOP issue. @Sammi Brie: Could you please do the final review for alt2? --Mhhossein talk 05:29, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- The MEDRS issues (in the article) have been addressed now. I Oppose Alt1, which makes a medical claim for which there are not MEDRS sources, but I would not oppose Alt2. (Although it could be worried in a less repetitive way.) It is an unproven methodology in terms of secondary reviews, which is what matters for Wikipedia. Re
Yes, I do. If the MEDRS issues are addressed, this can run. It's barely above 1,500 characters RPS. I'd rephrase ALT2 this way, which probably will be much more idiomatic. At least there are no medical claims made here: the probe is homegrown and used there. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:14, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- ALT2a: ... that a locally developed diagnostic probe is used for breast cancer surgeries in Iran?