Template:Did you know nominations/Caroline Katzenstein

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:16, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Caroline Katzenstein

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Portrait of Caroline Katzenstein

... that Caroline Katzenstein fought for women's right to vote alongside Alice Paul and wrote to politicians like John F. Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and Harry Truman to gain support for the Equal Rights Amendment - which is still not ratified today? Source BBC

Reviewed: I still have to review another nomination and will post this here once it's done - unless I am exempt because of less than 5 DYK credits.

Created by Gardneca (talk). Self-nominated at 00:50, 21 December 2018 (UTC).

Interesting life, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. - The image is licensed and a good illustration. Why portrait in the caption? Better a year? - You seem new, good news: you are exempt from qpq. Hook: this is way too long, too many thoughts. Mention one person she addressed, not four, and link the person, and link the amendments, and link Paul if you think people know her, otherwise don't mention her. - Article: some things you will have to to fix:

Please no "bare urls", - give us publisher and a date (or accessdate), better also an author.
Have a reference at the end of each section. - Let me know if you don't know how to use a ref multiple times.

Other things are optional but I recommend them highly:

Link the people as in the hook.
Consider fewer red links, - they are a bit distracting, the longer the more so, - keep only what you expect to grow to an article soon.
Consoider to have no extra death section if it's only that one sentence.
Avoid words such as "famous", and "however".
"Suffrage special" - do we have an article we could link to? The many names don't add much to her bio, think about trimming boring lists.
Consider an infobox. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:16, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Gardneca, please respond. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:25, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt, sorry I'm here! I am new and a bit overwhelmed. I made the changes you suggested in the article, but I left the red links because I'd like to keep working on this. Also, I couldn't find the bare url you mentioned. Lastly, not sure what an info box is. I will fix the DYK hook, but do I edit it directly above, or do I add a new one? Thanks --Gardneca —Preceding undated comment added 00:20, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

That's all fine, take your time. I'll get back later, busy day today, just let you know that I am with you. - An infobox appears in the upper right of an article, with basic facts such as born when and where, etc. Compare Werner Bardenhewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:55, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Gardneca, now looking. The bare urls in the external links section were fixed in this edit. The hook: please don't edit it (unless minor spelling mistakes), but word something new below where put "ALT1" for you. Make ALT2 or whatever if you want to suggest alternatives. Looking forward to your reply! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:10, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Great article! Here are a couple of possibilities: the first is a shortened version of your original proposal. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 18:46, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that Caroline Katzenstein (pictured) fought alongside Alice Paul for women suffrage and asked politicians like Richard Nixon to support the Equal Rights Amendment - which is still not ratified today?

ALT2: ~~... that Caroline Katzenstein designed a poster stamp for national distribution to encourage voting for the Woman Suffrage Amendment in November 1915 ?~~

Gerda Arendt what Mary Mark Ockerbloom (thank you!) wrote looks great to me, but I'd change Richard Nixon to JFK since I think that might be a bit more intriguing? So, it would read something like what I've put below. Gardneca (talk) 18:27, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that Caroline Katzenstein (pictured) fought alongside Alice Paul for women suffrage and asked politicians like John F. Kennedy to support the Equal Rights Amendment - which is still not ratified today?

Thank you, both! What do you think of saying "presidents from ... to ..." to show how long and tedious that work was? Perhaps drop Paul, for those who may not know her? - The article doesn't specifically name the amendments, so tough to speak of them in the last clause. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:37, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

The abbrevation ERA should be introduced in the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:40, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

I like the idea of mentioning two presidents to show timeline, and OK to remove Paul too. So, how's this: Gardneca (talk) 21:03, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that Caroline Katzenstein (pictured) fought for women suffrage and asked politicians from John F. Kennedy to Richard Nixon to support the Equal Rights Amendment - which is still not ratified today?

Thank you, ALT3 preferred. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:07, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Returned from prep per discussion at WT:DYK. Could you suggest a better hook reflecting her 58-year career and accomplishments? Yoninah (talk) 15:42, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

This is by a relatively new editor. Could you perhaps help? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:46, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

I left a message at WT:WIR asking for input on a hook. — Maile (talk) 15:55, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

ALT4 ... that Caroline Katzenstein (pictured) helped Alice Paul found the Congressional Union for Woman Suffrage and participated on a cross-country recruitment train trip? — Maile (talk) 16:45, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

fine, just this little caution - as somewhere further up - that people perhaps won't know Paul, - please forgive us ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:56, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Popping over from WT:WIR to try a version that captures the incredible span of time she worked on women's rights. Nonmodernist (talk) 17:02, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

ALT5: ... that Caroline Katzenstein (pictured) began campaigning for women's suffrage in 1910 and, after the Nineteenth Amendment gave women the right to vote, shifted her focus to supporting the Equal Rights Amendment - which is still not ratified today?

Nonmodernist - Make it a little shorter. Hook limit is 200 characters, not counting the word "pictured". Your hook is 233 characters. You can use Character Count in the Tool Box, upper right-hand side of this page.— Maile (talk) 17:11, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Maile66. Here's another try. Nonmodernist (talk) 18:44, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

ALT5: ... that Caroline Katzenstein (pictured) began campaigning for women's suffrage in 1910 and, once the vote was granted, focused on supporting the Equal Rights Amendment - which is still not ratified today?

ALT6: ... that Caroline Katzenstein (pictured) joined the fight for women's suffrage in 1910 and asked politicians like Richard Nixon to support the Equal Rights Amendment - which is still not ratified today?

Approve both ALT5 and ALT6. Of the two, I believe ALT5 is more encompassing. @Yoninah:, @Gerda Arendt:, @Gardneca: leaving it up to you to pick a favorite of all hooks that are not struck. But I'm getting a sense that mentioning the Equal Rights Amendment in the hook might be a really good idea. Alice Paul came up with the idea, so attempts at its passage have been going on for almost 100 years. — Maile (talk) 21:35, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

ALT5 for me, no prominence to Nixon ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

I have struck the ALT4 I created, in favor of the above ALT5. — Maile (talk) 12:40, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

I have swapped out the original image for an enhanced cropped one that might be clearer on the main page. — Maile (talk) 16:25, 1 March 2019 (UTC)