Template:Did you know nominations/Chu Ke-liang

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PFHLai (talk) 23:23, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Chu Ke-liang

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• ... that Taiwanese comedian Chu Ke-liang went into hiding for ten years to escape gambling debts to underworld figures?

• ALT1:... that Taiwanese comedian Chu Ke-liang's screen image includes a dinner jacket with a bowtie, bermuda shorts, and a "toilet-lid haircut"?
• Reviewed: Agragami Adivasi Samiti
• Comment: please choose a hook or write another

Created/expanded by AjaxSmack (talk). Self nom at 05:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not comfortable with running the BLP hook as the source is just a pop culture column. Something that serious, to be on the front page, needs better sourcing. Also the reference given as 'China Times' is just an online pop culture column in Taipei Times. The whole article is really based on his gambling debts, all of which is sourced from tabloids and pop culture columns. The article needs to be much more about his work - which shows he was on etc. As it stands I don't think this passes WP:BLP. ALT1 is better but it needs an article to match. It's almost an afterthought in the current article. Secretlondon (talk) 00:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I have responded to each point and followed it with general comments.

1. "I'm not comfortable with running the BLP hook as the source is just a pop culture column." — It is only natural that a pop culture icon would be primarily written about in a pop culture article. The Taipei Times is a reliable source and the column in question appears in the print edition of the paper which is also viewable online.[1] The Apple Daily is Taiwan's second largest circulating print newspaper.
2. "Also the reference given as 'China Times' is just an online pop culture column in Taipei Times." — I have just added a direct reference to thew China Times article. (Incidentally, the China Times is Taiwan's fourth largest circulating print newspaper.)
3. "The whole article is really based on his gambling debts, all of which is sourced from tabloids and pop culture columns" — The whole article is not based on the gambling debts. That material occupies part of one of the article's sections. There are several other sections in the article dealing with other aspects of the subject's life and career. If anything, this is more balanced than many other recent media depictions.(e.g., this)
4. "The article needs to be much more about his work - which shows he was on etc." — The article has a filmography section and his shows are noted in the Career and Comeback sections.
5. "As it stands I don't think this passes WP:BLP." — Why?
6. "ALT1 is better but it needs an article to match. It's almost an afterthought in the current article." — His look is mentioned (with a citation) in the intro and there is an entire section, Image and influence, on the subject. I have added an additional source that notes the specific items in his wardrobe.

As a general note, I attempted to source the article with English sources when possible to avoid WP:OR issues with translating and to make it easier to verify the material. However, there are several constraints on sourcing material on Chu Ke-liang in English. First, he is primarily known in non-English-speaking countries. Second, much of his career predates the internet era (hence, some of the Early career section is translated from the Chinese Wikipedia article).

I nominated this article for DYK, not Featured Article status and this version of the article was not intended to be the end-all be-all on the subject. In my estimation, DYK helps generate traffic to a topic and spurs interest in other editors improving the article. —  AjaxSmack  00:47, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• I have some BLP concerns about the original hook, but my concern about undue negativity would be resolved by simply removing the amount of money involved (i.e., "... that Taiwanese comedian Chu Ke-liang went into hiding for ten years to escape gambling debts to underworld figures?") However, I have a concern that the "Early career" section of the article has a couple of unsourced paragraphs -- more citations are needed to satisfy the DYK rule regarding adequate sourcing. --Orlady (talk) 18:17, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I am fine with removing the money amount from the original hook. I am also fine with the ALT hook (more positive tone) or any other. I am fine with removing the early career details marked "citation needed" that were translated from Chinese Wikipedia. I will not be able to source these without considerably more time than I can devote now. —  AjaxSmack  00:40, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, we could "hide" the two unsourced paragraphs. Meanwhile, I didn't want "Early career" to be as sparse as it would be without those paragraphs, so I searched for additional English-language sources on Chu. I found a couple of items to add to the article. Please look at my edits -- I can imagine that I might have seriously misinterpreted something! --Orlady (talk) 02:03, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

No, the Soong endorsement seems correct based on my personal recollection. His support of Soong was a big deal at the time. Though it might seem strange to some, Chu was a major cultural figure among a large segment in Taiwan. I was surprised he had no article a Wikipedia considering his stature (?). It was my hope to use DYK to publicize the article and solicit contributions from a wide audience. Thanks for the additions. —  AjaxSmack  02:39, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

• OK, with the editing of the original hook and the sequestration of the unfootnoted paragraphs, this passes muster. New enough, long enough, AGF on some aspects of hook fact and closeness to sources, due to non-English sources. An interesting career! --Orlady (talk) 03:39, 30 August 2012 (UTC)