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Template:Did you know nominations/Die Versuchung Jesu

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:07, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

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Die Versuchung Jesu

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Temptation of Christ
Temptation of Christ
  • Reviewed: Doris Sands Johnson
  • Comment: during Lent please, - there will be at least a stub on the composer, translated from German

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 17:25, 12 February 2016 (UTC).

  • New, long enough, conforms within policy. Clear citations, appear to be free from issues of paraphrasing, copyright, etc.
  • Hook . interesting, cited, ok for length. AGF for accuracy as score, which is cited, is not online. Page one of the score, which is online, shows the Devil speaking, but not in canon. I guess anyone reading the full score would spot that there are speaking passages in canon - but Gerda, unless you can cite a third-party source for the canon stuff, it might I think count as WP:OR. In which case you had better (ALT1 proposal) leave out the bit in the hook about canon, and simply leave it that the Devil speaks rather than sings. Also I would consider using (ALT2 proposal) 'Gospel motet' instead of 'Evagellienmottete' which is tough going for English speakers/readers.
  • Pic seems OK for free use.
  • QPQ verified.
  • Needs a brief rethink or additional citation on hook.--Smerus (talk) 17:46, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
I entirely agree with Smernus about Gospel motet (Evangelienmotette should be moved to the English term) but don't see the point of seeking a third party confirmation for something as uncontroversial as an obvious canon. Sparafucil (talk) 21:53, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Well I think it may be obvious to you, me and Gerda, (if we had it in front of us), but if a secondary authority can't be provided, it would still be WP:OR. And the fact that this is a canon needs to be clearly sourced from a secondary authority if the hook depends on it. (As I read the article and notes, the reference is simply to the score, i.e. the primary source, without comment). That's why I think it may be simpler to rephrase the hook. But maybe I am being too pernicketty? - Smerus (talk) 23:08, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Back. Regarding Evangelienmotette, please compare Classical music/Archive 61: I understand "a translation of the German term rather than a known term in English", concluding that we should not have an article on an English term not a known term in English.
Regarding "canon": yes, it's in the score, and impressive to perform as we did last Sunday. I would argue that it can be mentioned the same way as we take a tempo or dynamic marking from a score (or a colour from an image) without needing a different source, - that's not "research". If you can't follow, drop the part in the hook, but I think it's the most interesting part. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
OK I will agree on the issue of canon given that Sparafucil is also happy: but the score is then 2:1 against 'Evangeliemottete'. I looked at Classical music/Archive 61, but would point out that of the two supporters there, one, (FS), is also not a native Anglophone; and also that Grove does not have an article 'Evangelienmotette' either. Nor do I find any English sources using the term. I really think the term is a 'turn-off' - Can we then go for:
Smerus (talk) 12:41, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes. (The discussion was no voting - as we can't vote on the existence of terms - but a clarification, that no such term seems to exist in English. As it exists in German, sometimes as a subtitle of compositions, we need to talk about it in English without inventing a term. - I tweaked the hook to avoid a redirect.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:14, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Good to go using ALT2. Before March 24 if possible please as requested by nominator, to come within Lent.Smerus (talk) 15:05, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

The stub article on the composer is now created, and his birthday is 10 March. How about mentioning his name and having it that day? ALT3: ... that Gustav Gunsenheimer, the composer of Die Versuchung Jesu, a Gospel motet on the temptation of Christ (pictured), has the devil speak, not sing, at times in canon? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:58, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

  • OK for length, though a bit clunky compared with ALT2. I am happy with either.Smerus (talk) 08:12, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
How is this then, master of the pipe link:
ALT4: ... that the composer of Die Versuchung Jesu, a Gospel motet on the temptation of Christ (pictured), has the devil speak, not sing, at times in canon? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:18, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Yes, I like ALT4 better, but hey, that's just me!Smerus (talk) 08:22, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
As I also like it best, I struck the others ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:29, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
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