The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 01:37, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Valerie Steele (2008), Gothic: Dark Glamour, Yale University Press, pp. 49–50, Today cyber goths tend to wear primarily black clothing with hints of neon colors, as well as clothing made of reflective materials and PVC, and huge platform boots. Their hair extensions or falls often incorporate a bright color and multiple piercings are typical. Goggles are often worn. Some cyber goths also wear gas masks or (in what appears to be a kind of medical fetish) shiny PVC doctors' masks.
... that elastomeric respirators are used in medicine, agriculture, and fashion? Source: each individually cited, with a section on each in article (agriculture's section is split with other industries)
ALT1:... that elastomeric respirators have been used against everything from COVID-19 to conventionality of costume? ditto; I don't think the idea that cybergoth wear is deliberately unconventional is likely to be challenged, but I can probably source it if needed.
Overall: Citation needed templates need to be addressed.
AGF on offline sources relating to fashion.
Personally not sure about ALT1. I don't question that cybergoth wear is unconventional, but I had not heard the phrase 'conventionality of costume' before, and it's meaning is not explained in the article.
Is there a reason ALT2 is the only one to say "(pictured)"? CSJJ104 (talk) 18:33, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, CSJJ104! I'm trying to cite the bit about chemical cartridges and industrial use; the other two will, I think, need to be commented out. Gas masks are obviously used in music as a sound effect, but it's hard to find RS that say so. I just made an error with the "(pictured)". I agree that it's an unconventional phrase. Might this ALT3 be better?:
Quackenbush, Casey (August 15, 2019). "A run on gas masks: Hong Kong protesters circumvent crackdown on protective gear". Washington Post. " Gas masks, helmets, umbrellas, goggles: For anyone in Hong Kong, this is a checklist of essential protective equipment needed to partake in or document the protests that have plunged the semiautonomous Chinese territory into political crisis. But to authorities seeking to choke off the movement, these items are "tools for attacking people."... But as protests intensify, along with Chinese government warnings of dire consequences, authorities are clamping down on the sale and importation of items they regard as resistance tools. In turn, vendors and the anti-government protesters are devising ways to circumvent equipment shortages and keep the front lines supplied. "Nowadays, we work like smugglers," Peter said. "We have to hide from the government." Gas masks have become especially coveted in the Asian financial hub, where demonstrators have faced off with police in violent clashes. Police have fired more than 1,800 rounds of tear gas since early June....Chinese restrictions on protective equipment could technically violate World Trade Organization rules, said Bryan Mercurio, a professor at the Chinese University of Hong Kong's law school and an expert in international trade law. But under the national security provision in WTO rules, he said, it's "likely that China would call this an essential security measure...
I have also added a cite in image caption, on faith from Cybergoth article; obviously this cite should not be posted on the front page.
I think the contrast is hooky; I have added corresponding content to the article. The phrasing could probably be tightened, suggestions welcome. HLHJ (talk) 19:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Personally, I quite like ALT2, and it seems to fit well with the picture. For me ALT3 implies they are being smuggled to be used against COVID-19, which is not the case, or what the article says. Possibly "... but are resticted by jurisdictions which consider them tools of political resistance?" or similar is clearer? ALT4 might have a similar issue with implying why they are smuggled, but could this also perhaps clarify who considers them subversive? In both cases, the Wall Street Journal is behind a paywall so I am assuming good faith.CSJJ104 (talk) 21:29, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
I think in retrospect wikilinking "tear gas" would have been a good idea in ALT2. I've seen a fair number of hooks that are misleading if technically true. I once suggested ~"... that as the Salton Sea retreats, the gryphons are multiplying?", which was used despite giving a vivid false impression. I'd agree that ALT4 especially is confusing at best. What do you think would be hookiest? HLHJ (talk) 05:32, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
I've wikilinked tear gas in ALT2, and put a strikethrough ALT1, as I think we both agreed the wording there was bad. As it stands ALT3 seems the hookiest to me.CSJJ104 (talk) 17:08, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
I like ALT2 the most (though I suggested it) as I think it's the most surprising, and the photo is eye-catching. You don't have to decide yourself, you can approve both hooks and let the promoter decide. John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 01:58, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
No harm in expressing a preference, but yes, I intend to approve them and let the promoter make the decision. Please let me know when the outstanding issues have been resolved.CSJJ104 (talk) 20:14, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Overall: Approving ALT0, ALT2, ALT3, and ALT4. Did fix date parameter in one citation during review. CSJJ104 (talk) 17:18, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Yoninah let me know that articles with clarification tags can't be promoted. SL93 (talk) 19:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I was also planning to promote ALT2, but there are still "clarification needed" tags on the page. Also, the image is very dark at thumbnail size. The only clear image is the cop with the pink filters. Yoninah (talk) 19:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Pinging @John P. Sadowski (NIOSH): and @HLHJ: in case they haven't seen this. The clarification needed templates have been added since my review, hence why it was not an issue at the time. As for the image, @Yoninah: is there a specific issue you have with this? Possibly a little subjective, but I personally felt it was still clear at 120x133px.CSJJ104 (talk) 21:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
The image is really dark. Every time I look at it, I see black; only if I lift my eyes I see some red at the top. Yoninah (talk) 22:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah, CSJJ104, and HLHJ: I have resolved the clarification issues. The photo looks fine to me; maybe it's a monitor or an accessibility issue? John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 00:17, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Valerie Steele (2008), Gothic: Dark Glamour, Yale University Press, pp. 49–50, Today cyber goths tend to wear primarily black clothing with hints of neon colors, as well as clothing made of reflective materials and PVC, and huge platform boots. Their hair extensions or falls often incorporate a bright color and multiple piercings are typical. Goggles are often worn. Some cyber goths also wear gas masks or (in what appears to be a kind of medical fetish) shiny PVC doctors' masks.
Easy enough to fix. Here is a brighter version. HLHJ (talk) 00:57, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you both. Moving brighter image to top of template as well, and restoring tick per CSJJ104's review. Yoninah (talk) 01:35, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
I had been letting this DYK hang because of an ongoing discussion which may affect the existence of the article. However, meanwhile, others have done substantial work on the article, drastically improving it. I'd like a bit of time to go over the changes, polish the English, and add some more images (some of which I have, some of which I'll have to source) to illustrate the new text. As this is currently in prep space 7, I suspect that this will not be an issue, and I won't make any changes that would disqualify the article (like adding tags), but I felt a note of explanation here would not be out of place. HLHJ (talk) 13:41, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Citation needed templates still present
Citation needed templates need to be addressed.
Approving ALT0, ALT2, ALT3, and ALT4. Did fix date parameter in one citation during review. CSJJ104 (talk) 17:18, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Yoninah let me know that articles with clarification tags can't be promoted. SL93 (talk) 19:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)