- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Seven Pandas (talk) 21:02, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
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Elizabeth Nance
Nance in June 2020
... that Elizabeth Nance (pictured) is a most disruptive personality?source
- Comment: only my second DYK
Created by Seven Pandas (talk). Self-nominated at 20:59, 30 June 2020 (UTC).
A different hook is probably needed here as the hook could easily be misinterpreted as being an attack on Nance (and thus a BLP violation), despite the fact that the source actually shows that "disruptive" was meant as praise. One option could be to use a variation on the quote instead of just mentioning the "disruptive" part. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:25, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: I went with that as it's very quirky. Anyway, here's an alt:
- ALT1 *... that Elizabeth Nance (pictured) developed the first nanoparticles that can penetrate deep within the brain?source[1][2]
- ALT1a *... that Elizabeth Nance (pictured) has been credited with developing the first deep-brain penetrating nanoparticles while she was working on her PhD?https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalk/episode-71/source[3][4]
ALT2 *... that Elizabeth Nance (pictured) has a game-changing and innovative personality?source- ALT2 is probably unsuitable due to WP:PUFFERY concerns. ALT1 might work but another source could be provided to cite it rather than just the Forbes one. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:50, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- ALT1 *... that Elizabeth Nance (pictured) developed the first nanoparticles that can penetrate deep within the brain?source[1][2]
Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) added two refs at end of Alt 1 and to article both from Johns Hopkins University. Seven Pandas (talk) 22:50, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the edits. The JHU source seems to repeat the Forbes mention, while the Hopkins Medicine doesn't seem to explicitly credit the development to her specifically (it mentions her research but the focus seems to be more on the team itself). I'm assuming good faith for the sources, it's just that I have some reservations about using Forbes considering that its "Contributors" articles have raised concerns here in the past (although their Staff articles, of which the Forbes link is an example of, have been considered reliable). I'm also a bit concerned that the hook might too closely paraphrase the sources used. It might be a better idea for a second editor to take a look at this and verify the hook, someone who might be more versed in the field. Most of the DYK article requirements are met and I didn't find any close paraphrasing, and no QPQ is required. For now I've struck ALT0 and ALT2 for reasons I mentioned above. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:40, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) I'm not going to keep guessing what makes you happy. There are plenty of other possible hooks. Since you have looked this article over plenty why don't you write one yourself and save us both lots of time? Seven Pandas (talk) 02:13, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- I actually like ALT1, it just needs to be reworded a bit. The "nanoparticles that penetrate the brain part" is solid, it just needs paraphrasing. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:17, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) Fair enough, try 1a. Seven Pandas (talk) 11:29, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- Honestly the main issue here is that I'm not exactly sure if it was Nance herself that developed the system or the team she led. The Forbes link suggests the former but one of the other sources (the Hopkins source) suggests the latter. Could you clarify the situation here? If it's the latter then ALT1a should be changed to say "that a team led by Elizabeth Nance" but if it's the former then ALT1a will be passed as is. I may also ask for a second opinion from an expert as well for clarification purposes. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 06:40, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs)Seriously? Why didn't you say that in the first place? I am really tired of getting the run around from you. Pick something you're totally happy with now and approve it. Make a new alt if you want.12:29, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry for not explaining it well earlier, I had concerns from the start but I had no idea how to explain it better. Admittedly I wasn't intending on reviewing this at first and initially I only commented to point out the issues with the original hook as this isn't exactly in my line of expertise. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- As I mentioned earlier, the apparent inconsistency between the sources just needs to be clarified. The article is almost good to go, I will approve ALT1a (or a revised version) once this is done. If I haven't been clear with my earlier comments then I apologize for that. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:11, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) We have a new ref that is rock solid, a STEM-talk podcast from 2018, seems to be the original source for all this. Pertinent part of the podcast starts at 13:52. I've adjusted alt1a. On other note, we're still waiting on OTRS to finish the photo.Seven Pandas (talk) 22:22, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ford doesn't seem to have his own article and per recent discussions this appears to be discouraged, so it might be for the best to remove his name and just say "Nance has been credited with..." Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) Done. I reworded it rather than make a new alt. Seven Pandas (talk) 09:24, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) We have a new ref that is rock solid, a STEM-talk podcast from 2018, seems to be the original source for all this. Pertinent part of the podcast starts at 13:52. I've adjusted alt1a. On other note, we're still waiting on OTRS to finish the photo.Seven Pandas (talk) 22:22, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs)Seriously? Why didn't you say that in the first place? I am really tired of getting the run around from you. Pick something you're totally happy with now and approve it. Make a new alt if you want.12:29, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- Honestly the main issue here is that I'm not exactly sure if it was Nance herself that developed the system or the team she led. The Forbes link suggests the former but one of the other sources (the Hopkins source) suggests the latter. Could you clarify the situation here? If it's the latter then ALT1a should be changed to say "that a team led by Elizabeth Nance" but if it's the former then ALT1a will be passed as is. I may also ask for a second opinion from an expert as well for clarification purposes. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 06:40, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) Fair enough, try 1a. Seven Pandas (talk) 11:29, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- I actually like ALT1, it just needs to be reworded a bit. The "nanoparticles that penetrate the brain part" is solid, it just needs paraphrasing. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:17, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs) I'm not going to keep guessing what makes you happy. There are plenty of other possible hooks. Since you have looked this article over plenty why don't you write one yourself and save us both lots of time? Seven Pandas (talk) 02:13, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the edits. The JHU source seems to repeat the Forbes mention, while the Hopkins Medicine doesn't seem to explicitly credit the development to her specifically (it mentions her research but the focus seems to be more on the team itself). I'm assuming good faith for the sources, it's just that I have some reservations about using Forbes considering that its "Contributors" articles have raised concerns here in the past (although their Staff articles, of which the Forbes link is an example of, have been considered reliable). I'm also a bit concerned that the hook might too closely paraphrase the sources used. It might be a better idea for a second editor to take a look at this and verify the hook, someone who might be more versed in the field. Most of the DYK article requirements are met and I didn't find any close paraphrasing, and no QPQ is required. For now I've struck ALT0 and ALT2 for reasons I mentioned above. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:40, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- On a different note: we cannot use that image because proper evidence has not been provided that proves that the image has been released into the public domain. Evidence (like forwarding a release email) should be sent to OTRS and the image tagged with
{{subst:OP}}while the request is pending (but even then we should not use the photo until evidence has been cleared). Let me know if there are questions or how I can help. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 06:49, 19 July 2020 (UTC)- SuperHamster (talk · contribs)I didn't know about OTRS. I have the email and sent it to OTRS and put the OTRS tag on the file. Seven Pandas (talk) 12:29, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- Excellent, thank you! Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for the quick response. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 08:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contribs)SuperHamster (talk · contribs) OTRS approved for the photo in the article. Now we just need the DYK approved. Seven Pandas (talk) 22:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
- Excellent, thank you! Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for the quick response. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 08:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- SuperHamster (talk · contribs)I didn't know about OTRS. I have the email and sent it to OTRS and put the OTRS tag on the file. Seven Pandas (talk) 12:29, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I think that should do it. There's agreement here to go with ALT1a and the image has also been approved. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:12, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hi, I came by to promote this, and edited the article and infobox to get it in line with other academic biographies. It's hard to know why she meets GNG aside from the awards she's won. Please add a Career section, however, short, to describe what she has done. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 15:43, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- No. If you want the article changed, you do it. I'm done with DYK. You can cancel this and all my other DYKs if you want. Seven Pandas (talk) 15:52, 27 July 2020 (UTC)