- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Montanabw(talk) 03:15, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
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Eric Estorick
edit... that, in 1964, art dealer Eric Estorick recovered 1,564 Jewish Torah scrolls which had been confiscated by the Nazi authorities when the Czechoslovak Jews were exterminated?
Created by Verbcatcher (talk). Nominated by Jreferee (talk) at 05:55, 7 November 2013 (UTC).
Age length and refs are fine and its a catchy hook but it implies that every Jew in Czechoslavakia was exterminated and that isnt in the ref and I would not want us to imply it was if only a few were spared. Can I suggest
- (alt1)
... that, in 1964, art dealer Eric Estorick recovered 1,564 Jewish Torah scrolls saved by the Nazis for a celebration of the end of the Czechoslovak Jewish congregations? - Is this better? Victuallers (talk) 21:38, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
- I take your point about "extermination" meaning killing an entire population. However, I am unhappy with your proposed text.
- 1) It is confusing; it introduces too many issues in a short phrase
- 2) It assumes knowledge of the Nazi actions - how were the congregations ended?
- 3) The motivation of the Nazis for saving the scrolls is contested, and is outside the scope of the article.
- "The Czech Torah". Los Angeles Museum of the Holocaust.
...it helps disprove the myth that the Nazis preserved Jewish objects in order to create a museum of them once they had obliterated Jewish people from the Earth.
- "Who saved them?". The Czech Memorial Scrolls Museum.
The legend that there was a Nazi plan to create a ‘museum to an extinct race’ in Prague has never been proved.
- 3) The motivation of the Nazis for saving the scrolls is contested, and is outside the scope of the article.
- 4) At first glance "saved by the Nazis for a celebration" sounds positive.
- I suggest replacing "extermination" with "genocide" or "mass murder". My dictionary defines "genocide" as "the policy of deliberately killing a nationality or an ethnic group". I propose:
- (alt2) ... that in 1964, art dealer Eric Estorick recovered 1,564 Jewish Torah scrolls which had been confiscated by the Nazi authorities following the genocide of the Czechoslovak Jews?
- Or we could have "...following the mass-murder of the Czechoslovak Jews?", or "...when Czechoslovak Jewish congregations were exterminated?" (on the presumption the some congregations were completed exterminated).
- Is it a concern that the text may be too close the the cited newspaper reference? "Jewish scrolls as memorial". The Observer. 2 February 1964. p. 6.[firewall].
They originally belonged to the Jewish communities in Czechoslovakia and were confiscated by the Nazi authorities when the Jews were exterminated.
- While we must avoid being polemical, in this case stark language is appropiate. Verbcatcher (talk) 01:43, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
- thanks for the reconsideration. I'm quite happy with the change of words you suggest so tick for the alt. Victuallers (talk) 13:16, 10 November 2013 (UTC)