Template:Did you know nominations/Ferdinand Lee Barnett (Chicago)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:41, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Ferdinand Lee Barnett (Chicago)

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F.L. Barnett (1900)

... that anti-lynching activist Ferdinand Lee Barnett took part in a rally where African Americans refused to sing then de facto national anthem My Country 'Tis of Thee because of the violence they were facing in 1892.

Created by Smmurphy (talk). Self-nominated at 20:43, 16 September 2016 (UTC).

I've struck ALT0 because the article doesn't say that. E Eng 07:17, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

EEng Here's what's in the article "In 1892, three men, including a friend of Ida B. Wells were lynched by a white mob while in police custody in Memphis, Tennessee in an event known as the Peoples Grocery lynching. The act sparked a national outcry and Barnett took part in meetings in Chicago called to organize reaction. At a meeting of one thousand people at Bethel A. M. E. Church, Reverened W. Gaines' call for the crowd to sing the then de facto national anthem, "America (My Country, 'Tis of Thee)", but the call was refused in protest, and the song, "John Brown's Body" was substituted. "

Here's the sources (their spelling): A decided sensation accurred when a pastor stepped forward and asked the audience to join in singing "My Country. Tis of Thee." A number of voices indicated a decided opposition to this part of the programme. He did not at first comprehend the situation, and asked: Don't you want to sign 'America'?" To which question a dozen voices in different parts of the house answered "No". One man in the audience rose and said: "I don't want to sing that song until this country is what it claims to be, 'sweet land of liberty.'" and F. W. Barrett spoke on the recent Memphis lynching. Wouldn't Sing America," The Evening World (New York, New York) March 28, 1892, page 3, accessed September 16, 2016 at [1], Not Their Country, The Decatur Herald (Decatur, Illinois) March 29, 1892, page 1, accessed September 16, 2016 at [2]

What is it you feel the article should be saying for the above hook? — Maile (talk) 13:31, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that at an 1892 rally attended by anti-lynching activist Ferdinand Lee Barnett, African-Americans refused to sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" until "this country is what it claims to be, 'sweet land of liberty.'"? Source: ' a pastor stepped forward and asked the audience to join in singing "My Country. Tis of Thee."... One man in the audience rose and said: "I don't want to sing that song until this country is what it claims to be, 'sweet land of liberty.'" ' [3] E Eng 18:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

That looks great to me. Thanks, both of you. Let me know what to do next or if I can be of help. Smmurphy^(Talk) 21:43, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Full review needed. — Maile (talk) 22:30, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Article is large and new enough. It is fully referenced and neutrally written. Image is in the article, and is public domain and therefore suitable. CopyVioCheck finds nothing. QPQ is not required as this is the first DYK for the author. As original hook is struck, checking alt1, it is too long at 211 characters. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:28, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

ll characters is a lot to cut (I'm not complaining, just thinking out loud). If we change "African Americans" to "participants" and modify the end phrase, it drops below 200 but keeps a similar meaning. What do you think about? Smmurphy^(Talk) 16:28, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

ALT2 ... that at an 1892 rally attended by anti-lynching activist Ferdinand Lee Barnett (pictured), participants refused to sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" until the US was more truly a "sweet land of liberty."?

Alt2 is short enough at 190 characters. I will check veracity next. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:39, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Currently Alt2 fails because it does not link to the article, but to the dab page instead. It would be also good if My Country 'Tis of Thee was linked, because for people like me, I have ever heard it until I came across this article and hook collection. Also the hook content is not in the article. Putting "sweet land of liberty." in, is a bit of a stretch of the imagination. I had to seach to find that is the second line of the song, but they did not want to sing that song. If I change the hook, then I can't approve it! So can you propose something that is in the article? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:44, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I pipe-linked the first link and added the second link. The "sweet land of liberty" part comes from the citation and was proposed by another editor, I agree that it is a bit of a stretch. However, I added it to the article in case that version is better. Here is another version more similar to my first (which was struck). Let me know how the two compare for you. Also, does the 200 character limit include wikimarkup? In particular, does it include apostrophes, square brackets, and pipe link directions? Smmurphy^(Talk) 12:42, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

ALT3 ... that anti-lynching activist Ferdinand Lee Barnett took part in a 1892 rally where African Americans refused to sing the anthem My Country 'Tis of Thee due to the violence they faced?

We only count characters that appear, so wikimarkup, piping are not counted. But visible quote marks are. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:11, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
~~hook alt3 is OK~~, short enough, links article, cited and confirmed. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:06, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Graeme Bartlett, NO! Neither the article nor the sources say they wouldn't sing "due to the violence they faced", AFAICS. That's why ALT0 was struck in the first place. The right solution here was simply to add the appropriate material to the article to support ALT2 (which derives from ALT1) -- when I wrote ALT1 I thought someone would have the sense to do that without me having to do everything myself. Crikey, I quoted the source right there when I gave ALT1 above. Anyway, now I've added it to the article. E Eng 22:36, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Hook alt2 is OK now it is in the article and correctly formatted (I added pictured). GTG. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:46, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you both, I'm sorry for the confusion. My interpretation of the newspapers.com sources was that the rally had to do with lynchings and thus refusing to sing the song had to do with lynchings. I can see that maybe the sources do not make that explicit, and am happy with ALT2 (or anything, really). Again, let me know if I can be of more assistance. Smmurphy^(Talk) 23:35, 17 October 2016 (UTC)