Template:Did you know nominations/Hermann Oestrich
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:20, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
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Hermann Oestrich
... that the German engineer Hermann Oestrich became a Knight of the Legion of Honour for developing the Snecma Atar turbine?Source: several
- Reviewed: Roman temple of Bziza
- Comment: Sorry, I missed by a few days, being busy in real life and this not "my" article.
Created by Dr. Blofeld (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 14:25, 4 September 2019 (UTC).
The article is long enough and I'm using WP:IAR for being a few days late. The hook is directly cited and a QPQ has been completed. I assume good faith on the references that I can't access. There is a citation needed tag that needs to be taken care of. SL93 (talk) 18:40, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
- I added a reference. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:57, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. SL93 (talk) 19:13, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I came by to promote this, but did not see the hook fact in the article. Please review my edit and confirm that this is what it says in the book, which I am unable to view. We have two articles, Snecma Atar and SNECMA Atar 101, both of which mention Oestrich. Yoninah (talk) 00:58, 13 September 2019 (UTC)- @Gerda Arendt: @Dr. Blofeld:. SL93 (talk) 04:40, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for catching that, Yoninah. I also can't see the book, but this seems the correct article. (Why do we have 2?) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:05, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
- Having tried to answer that question, I am not so sure any more. The article you inserted is a specific type, while the general article describes the whole development (vs. one specific engine), which may be what he was honoured for. Dr. Blofeld? If this is the case:
- ALT1* ... that German engineer Hermann Oestrich became a Knight of the Legion of Honour for developing the Snecma Atar turbines?
- Anyway, someone with knowledge should unify if it's Snecma or SNECMA. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:12, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
- A drive-by comment, but the article on the company (which is now known as Safran) suggest that it's "Snecma", though I've seen both forms in common use online. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:26, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Same for me, that's why I asked. It may also have been changed over time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:05, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- A drive-by comment, but the article on the company (which is now known as Safran) suggest that it's "Snecma", though I've seen both forms in common use online. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:26, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- I added a reference. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:57, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: I'm not sure what happened, but SNECMA Atar 101 was originally created as a redirect to Snecma Atar. Snecma Atar was created in 2005 and the new article from a redirect was in 2013. SL93 (talk) 20:34, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Pinging editor that created the article over a redirect - @Petebutt: SL93 (talk) 20:37, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- The ATAR 101 was the first engine produced by ATAR / SNECMA. The later ATAR 8 and ATAR 9 were similar looking, but actually almost completely different designs. The SNECMA ATAR article would sensibly concentrt\ate om the later SNECMA derivatives:- the ATAR 8 and ATAR 9. I just didn't get around to it.--Petebutt (talk) 06:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- It looks like you'd say SNECMA, not Snecma, which was the question, - thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, I haven't been able to understand this discussion. Gerda, Dr. Blofeld, could you please update the article and provide a workable hook for us? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 18:37, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- We don't know for what exactly he was knighted, and we don't know if they who honoured him knew, so there's a dilemma. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:46, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- It looks like you'd say SNECMA, not Snecma, which was the question, - thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- The ATAR 101 was the first engine produced by ATAR / SNECMA. The later ATAR 8 and ATAR 9 were similar looking, but actually almost completely different designs. The SNECMA ATAR article would sensibly concentrt\ate om the later SNECMA derivatives:- the ATAR 8 and ATAR 9. I just didn't get around to it.--Petebutt (talk) 06:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- The French wiki states the he was awarded the distinction for "services rendus" (for services provided). This is the common criteria in France to allow foreigners or French people to get the distinction for the help they provided to the country which is obviously the case for our man. LouisAlain (talk) 12:52, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- I'm talking about the SNECMA designations. Where I left the ALT1 hook, it was a piped link to: [[Snecma Atar|developing the Snecma Atar turbines]]. I noted that we have two different articles mentioning Oestrich, Snecma Atar and SNECMA Atar 101. Which should be in the piped link? Currently the page states: ''For his services to the development of the [[SNECMA Atar 101]] turbojet engine, he was awarded [[Knight of the Legion of Honor]] in 1962.'' Yoninah (talk) 18:51, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- I know what we have but I don't know what the (French) source says, so I don't know if the specific (first) engine 101 or the whole concept. It may be ambiguous or uncertain to begin with. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:58, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I understand. So please suggest a different hook that we can verify. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 20:54, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- On my way out until Monday - see my talk. A different hook won't help us for the article where we have the same problem. Does it really matter if for one engine or the program, in the end? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:03, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- I have found and added the article in the issue of L'Express which is not viewable on Google Books, but which the website of L'Express has online [1]. I also found and added another source for the award of the Légion d'honneur [2]. Neither says specifically what it was awarded for. Both say that he was technical director of Snecma and directed/oversaw development of ATAR engines (plural). L'Express does talk about Atar 101, but also mentions Atar 9 (tested in 1957, according to Snecma Atar, so certainly while Oestrich was technical director). I have edited the article to say "For his services at Snecma overseeing the development of Snecma Atar turbojet engines, he was awarded Knight of the Legion of Honor ..", and added a link to Atar 101 in the para above that, where it says "Oestrich and his team worked on the further development of the Atar 101." I think ALT1 is accurate. RebeccaGreen (talk) 02:56, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you, that looks like a lovely solution! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:32, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: When you have a moment, you may like to look at the sources I added and the edit I made in the article, as I noted in the comment just above Gerda's. If it's still not adequate for ALT1, I'll be happy to help think of more hooks. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:54, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- By coincidence, I also just got new sources, wait a minute or ten. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:30, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- Unless someone who knows French better wants to add [3], "Oestrich pour les moteurs à réaction à la Snecma (voir l'encadré page 130)" - that's obviously a plural, "moteurs". LouisAlain? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:35, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you, that looks like a lovely solution! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:32, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- You're right, it's a plural; the company didn't build one single engine. LouisAlain (talk) 12:52, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- Much more specific about our man: [4]. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- The second source you found, "La folle histoire du Dr Oestrich" is one I have already added. I will check the first you found - yes, "les moteurs" is definitely plural. RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:46, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- OK, having looked, I don't think we need to add the first source, as the second source is the one the first tells us to look at, I think. We don't see it as a box, and we don't see the page numbers, but "La folle histoire" is all about Dr Oestrich and his jet engines at Snecma, and appeared on the same date in the same paper as "Comment la France a recruté des savants de Hitler". RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:51, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- That's great, thank you! I was kind of blind. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- OK, having looked, I don't think we need to add the first source, as the second source is the one the first tells us to look at, I think. We don't see it as a box, and we don't see the page numbers, but "La folle histoire" is all about Dr Oestrich and his jet engines at Snecma, and appeared on the same date in the same paper as "Comment la France a recruté des savants de Hitler". RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:51, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- The second source you found, "La folle histoire du Dr Oestrich" is one I have already added. I will check the first you found - yes, "les moteurs" is definitely plural. RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:46, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- Much more specific about our man: [4]. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Please could someone review ALT1? I have struck the original hook, as the French sources we found and added to the article confirm that Oestrich oversaw development of multiple turbojet engines during the time that he was director of Snecma, and so we have clarified which Snecma article the hook should link to. RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:21, 27 October 2019 (UTC)