Template:Did you know nominations/Inès de Bourgoing

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:20, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Inès de Bourgoing

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Inès de Bourgoing Fortoul, 1907

~~... that Inès de Bourgoing, president of the French Société de Secours aux Blessés Militaires, established nursing facilities in Morocco?~~

Reviewed: QPQ Template:Did you know nominations/LaVerne Krause, new article expanded to GA
Comment: Completed for Women in Red's nursing editathon

Improved to Good Article status by SusunW (talk), Ipigott (talk), and LouisAlain (talk). Nominated by SusunW (talk) at 19:59, 17 October 2016 (UTC).

Comment only Is there nothing more interesting for a hook? This seems rather dull to me. Edwardx (talk) 20:35, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

That she started nursing programs in two countries isn't interesting enough, apparently? It is truly why I stopped doing DYK. Interesting is subjective. Please feel free to suggest one you find more interesting Edwardx.

ALT1 ... that Inès de Bourgoing, president of the French Société de Secours aux Blessés Militaires, established Morocco's first nursing facilities?

This all checks out and is within guidelines. I think the original hook is fine, the ALT one seems too broad -- was it the first nursing facility, or the only first of that type? Either way, everything meets the guidelines, and this is good to go. --Coemgenus (talk) 15:31, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, @SusunW: I also find the hook un-hooky, perhaps because of the way it's worded. If you used the word "also", then I might understand that she was active in two countries. But there are other things to say about her. How about:
ALT2: ... that nurse Inès de Bourgoing (pictured) was named Honorary Corporal of the Foreign Legion after she established a convalescent hospital in Morocco and a retirement center in France for French soldiers?

This one is fine if you prefer. Source states "elle fonde la Maison de convalescence de Salé, prés de Rabat, aussi plaisante que confortable, destinée anx légionnaires et soldats convalescents privés de famille. En complément, elle leur crée, à la Balme-les-Grottes dans l'Isère, une maison de retraite Elle reçut le titre envié et peu courant de "1ère classe d'honneur de la Légion Etrangère." (she founded Salé convalescent home...and created, in La Balme-les-Grottes in the Isère, a retirement home for which she received the coveted and uncommon title "1st class honor of the Foreign Legion") As an aside, since she was not a military member of the Foreign Legion, the title had to be honorary, in gratitude for service rendered [1]. SusunW (talk) 18:27, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

ALT3: ~~... that French nurse Inès de Bourgoing (pictured) was the first woman to be accorded the rank of Grand Officer of the Legion of Honor for her humanitarian work in Morocco?~~ Yoninah (talk) 17:50, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

This one doesn't work, IMO, as the source says "Madame Lyautey fut la première femme à être élevée au grade de Grand Officier de la Légion d’Honneur pour récompenser son oeuvre sociale, ainsi qu’au grade de Grand Officier de l’Ordre du Ouissam Alaouite en reconnaissance de son oeuvre au Maroc où elle est décédée à Casablanca le 9 février 1953." (She was the first woman to be elevated to the rank of Grand Officer of the Legion of Honor for social work and as a Grand Officer of the Order of Wissam Alaouite to recognize her work in Morocco...) It only works if you leave out Morocco, which removes the novelty of her working in two different countries, but that is merely my opinion.

Yoninah Thanks for the suggestions. I always appreciate your help. The fact that she was the "French" president of the SSBM, indicated to me that she was operating in two places, but I understand your issue. If "also" makes it more interesting then it is the easiest fix.

ALT4: ~~...that Inès de Bourgoing, president of the French Société de Secours aux Blessés Militaires, also established nursing facilities in Morocco?~~ SusunW (talk) 18:27, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: If you're not thrilled about ALT2 we could go with ALT4, but I would not use the French name of the organization; the English name is far more accessible to a broad readership. Yoninah (talk) 18:41, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Yoninah, truly either is fine. The issue with not using the French Red Cross is that it did not exist until 3 organizations were joined to form it in 1940. When she established the infirmaries in Morocco, she was president of SSBM. If you are meaning to replace the French name with the translation, Society for the Relief of Wounded Soldiers, that would work, though I have never seen it translated in any document. (It is always either referred to as the SSBM or "incorrectly" as the Red Cross). SusunW (talk) 19:02, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Oh. Well, then, I would like to ask another reviewer what they think of ALT2. Yoninah (talk) 19:10, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I support ALT2 since it appears to be both correct and acceptable to all parties, and possibly cooler :-) I would consider ALT4 as a possibility, using the French name of the organization, but the French Red Cross article that is linked from that is not very detailed, so I think ALT2 is a better choice. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 02:50, 1 November 2016 (UTC)