- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 20:40, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
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Jacob Saunders
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that Olympian sailors Graeme and Jacob Saunders are brothers whose first boat was the Green Dragon, docked at the Chester Yacht Club in Nova Scotia?Source: "Sailing Saunders brothers take Chester, N.S., along to Rio", CBC News- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Yumi Nu, Template:Did you know nominations/Deutsches Romantik-Museum, Template:Did you know nominations/Louis Weinstein
- Comment: This is a 3-way nomination. Per DYK tool, first 5x expansion of Chester Yacht Club began on July 11, 2022, although I started editing a few days before that.
5x expanded by Cielquiparle (talk). Graeme Saunders (sailor) and Jacob Saunders created by Sportsfan 1234. Chester Yacht Club created by NovaScotia06 (talk). Nominated by Cielquiparle (talk) at 23:07, 15 July 2022 (UTC).
I'm not really sure if the currently proposed hook is interesting to a broad audience. To me it appears more appealing to sailing fans than general readers. Maybe something else can be proposed here? Perhaps separate hooks for the brothers and the yacht club? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:51, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping to Sportsfan 1234 as the creator of the Saunders brothers' articles, as well as to provide input on new possible hooks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks Narutolovehinata5. I have an ALT hook coming but it requires further editing to the articles. Will try to get it in tomorrow. Cielquiparle (talk) 04:04, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
- Here it is, @Narutolovehinata5:. This fact now appears in the articles for both Jacob Saunders and for Chester Yacht Club, both mentioning Graeme's participation as well.
- ALT1:
... that Olympian brothers Graeme and Jacob Saunders started a "Dinghy Locker Initiative" with the Chester Yacht Club to help young sailors in need?Cielquiparle (talk) 12:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle: Eh, I'm not really sure about this. Give me some time to think if this hook appeals to broad audiences. In the meantime, is it okay if you propose separate solo hooks for all three bolded articles? These would be for backup purposes in case ALT1 doesn't work out. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:13, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- We could also ask for other opinions. So far I've had one person feed back that the ALT1 hook is much better than the original, and that the keywords that pique his interest as a non-sailor include "dinghy" and "dinghy locker", and "helping young sailors in need". I'm not that keen on submitting 3 separate hooks, as I don't think it's worth flooding DYK with this story 3 times. Also pinging User:7&6=thirteen who apparently knows about sailing and dinghies. Cielquiparle (talk) 12:20, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I was thinking more of the three articles having separate unrelated hooks, if possible. I'll get back to you on that but we can go with ALT1 if there are no other alternative options. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:23, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- One reason I like the ALT1 hook is that it sort of goes against the perception that everyone who sails must be extraordinarily wealthy. Yes, you probably can't get into sailing without a certain level of means; on the other hand, there are also those who pursue the sport (or support their children in pursuing it) without necessarily having access to bottomless funds. It also relates to recycling and reuse. (In fact, I think I'll go add one more sentence about that on the club page.) Cielquiparle (talk) 13:09, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think said point is obvious in the hook unfortunately. People not in the know about sailing may not get that angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:54, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed. But it's hinted at with "young sailors in need". Cielquiparle (talk) 14:55, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think said point is obvious in the hook unfortunately. People not in the know about sailing may not get that angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:54, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- One reason I like the ALT1 hook is that it sort of goes against the perception that everyone who sails must be extraordinarily wealthy. Yes, you probably can't get into sailing without a certain level of means; on the other hand, there are also those who pursue the sport (or support their children in pursuing it) without necessarily having access to bottomless funds. It also relates to recycling and reuse. (In fact, I think I'll go add one more sentence about that on the club page.) Cielquiparle (talk) 13:09, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I was thinking more of the three articles having separate unrelated hooks, if possible. I'll get back to you on that but we can go with ALT1 if there are no other alternative options. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:23, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle: Eh, I'm not really sure about this. Give me some time to think if this hook appeals to broad audiences. In the meantime, is it okay if you propose separate solo hooks for all three bolded articles? These would be for backup purposes in case ALT1 doesn't work out. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:13, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- ALT1:
- Here it is, @Narutolovehinata5:. This fact now appears in the articles for both Jacob Saunders and for Chester Yacht Club, both mentioning Graeme's participation as well.
- All three articles met DYK requirements at the time of the nomination, I didn't find any close paraphrasing. The Dinghy Initiative is only mentioned in Jacob and the club's article, but not Graeme's. That may need to be fixed. As for the hook itself, they're mentioned in the source and they're properly sourced. I am still unconvinced of ALT1's interest to a broad audience and I will get back to you on that. I do agree that it is better than ALT0, however. In the meantime, I'd also like to hear from User:7&6=thirteen if they have any suggestions for alternative hooks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:11, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- After discussing this nomination with Sammi Brie via Discord DM, she said that it may be better to have separate hooks for the yacht club and the brothers. How about having a double-article hook about the brothers both being part of Canada's sailing team at the 2016 Olympics? Personally I thought them being brothers competing together seems more eye-catching to a broad audience than the yacht club angle.
- As for the yacht club, it could probably have its own hook instead. How about a hook on the "lobster feasts and chicken roasts" thing? That sounded interesting at least to me. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:32, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5:: Thanks for the further feedback and for checking with Sammi. I had hesitated to focus too much on the "siblings competing together in the Olympics" angle, as it seems to be a rather common thing; on the other hand, it is indeed an evergreen story with universal appeal. How about these?
- ALT2:
... that Canadian sailor Jacob Saunders was the skipper while his brother Graeme was crew in the men's 470 event at the 2016 Summer Olympics? - ALT3:
... that Canadian brothers Graeme and Jacob Saunders competed together in a two-person dinghy at the 2016 Summer Olympics? - FORK ALT0:
... that the first woman in history to win the Prince of Wales Cup in sailing was a member of the Chester Yacht Club?Source: Montreal Star (1926) - FORK ALT1:
... that Chester Yacht Club in Nova Scotia hosts Chester Race Week, billed as Canada’s largest keelboat regatta?Source: Globe and Mail (2013) Cielquiparle (talk) 09:53, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- ALT2:
- @Narutolovehinata5:: Thanks for the further feedback and for checking with Sammi. I had hesitated to focus too much on the "siblings competing together in the Olympics" angle, as it seems to be a rather common thing; on the other hand, it is indeed an evergreen story with universal appeal. How about these?
- (edit conflict) With ALT2, the article doesn't directly say that Jacob was a skipper during the Olympics. Instead, the mention of him being a skipper refers to the 470 class rather than the Olympics specifically. Maybe that can be clarified? As for the CYC hooks, I have a slight reference for ALT0, but the issue is that we don't appear to have an article for the Cup. If that falls through, ALT1 is possible, but it may be a good idea to link to either keelboat or regatta for the benefit of those unfamiliar with either term. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:13, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I have to note that I edit conflicted while writing my comment, and since I wrote it the nom has proposed ALT3. I think ALT3 solves my concerns with ALT2 so for the Saunders articles I give ALT3 my seal of approval. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:15, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5:: In that case, could we work in the yacht club like this for a 3-way after all?
- ALT3a:
... that Canadian brothers Graeme and Jacob Saunders, who started sailing at the Chester Yacht Club, competed together in a two-person dinghy at the 2016 Summer Olympics?Cielquiparle (talk) 14:28, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment A triple hook is difficult. The original hook was a yawner. The alternates are improvements. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:14, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think ALT3a is possible, but I'd like to hear from 7&6=thirteen if they'd be fine with it specifically or would prefer a split hook (given their comment above). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:50, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment A triple hook is difficult. The original hook was a yawner. The alternates are improvements. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:14, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- ALT3a:
- @Narutolovehinata5:: In that case, could we work in the yacht club like this for a 3-way after all?
- (edit conflict) I have to note that I edit conflicted while writing my comment, and since I wrote it the nom has proposed ALT3. I think ALT3 solves my concerns with ALT2 so for the Saunders articles I give ALT3 my seal of approval. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:15, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment ALT3a contains 168 characters, and is possible. Could be edited to" "*ALT3b: ... that Canadian brothers Graeme and Jacob Saunders learned to sail at the Chester Yacht Club and campaigned a two-person dinghy in the 2016 Summer Olympics?" Or you chould drop the "learned to sail at the Chester Yacht Club" entirely, and go with either FORK ALT0 or FORK ALT1. I have no preference. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 02:09, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle: Given the above comment, I think I can suggest a compromise. Would you be fine with me approving ALT3b, ALT3, and and Fork ALT1? We could leave it to the promoter if the promoted hook(s) will be the three-article hook or the two separate hooks for the brothers and the yacht club. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:37, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5:: I really like the revised hook ALT3b from 7&6=thirteen! Could we just agree to go with that one, and strike the rest? It is the best of the lot, IMO. Re-formatting with indentation and comma here so it's clear:
- ALT3b: ... that Canadian brothers Graeme and Jacob Saunders learned to sail at the Chester Yacht Club, and campaigned a two-person dinghy in the 2016 Summer Olympics?
- The reason I don't think FORK ALT0 works after all is because 1) (as you said) it makes you want to look up the Prince of Wales Cup...which actually is covered elsewhere on a page that is in terrible shape, and should not be linked to from the main page, and 2) it also makes people want to look up who the record-setting woman is, but she doesn't have any biographical information available on WP. In any case, if you insist on forking, I think we should decide on it now rather than leaving it up to the promoter, so we can formally split the nomination template beforehand and avoid any further confusion. Cielquiparle (talk) 15:16, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5:: I really like the revised hook ALT3b from 7&6=thirteen! Could we just agree to go with that one, and strike the rest? It is the best of the lot, IMO. Re-formatting with indentation and comma here so it's clear:
- @Cielquiparle: Given the above comment, I think I can suggest a compromise. Would you be fine with me approving ALT3b, ALT3, and and Fork ALT1? We could leave it to the promoter if the promoted hook(s) will be the three-article hook or the two separate hooks for the brothers and the yacht club. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:37, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
I think we can go with ALT3b. My concern with splitting Chester at this point is that there doesn't seem to be any remaining possibilities of it being a separate hook because the other possibilities are problematic, as discussed above. ALT3b is probably the safest way for the article to be featured on DYK given that it seems unlikely that a solo hook about it is going to work out in this case. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:32, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks Narutolovehinata5! I am striking all the other ALTs now so there is no confusion. Cielquiparle (talk) 12:54, 7 August 2022 (UTC)