- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 09:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Johann Poppe
edit- ... that Johann Poppe, designing interiors of ocean liners for Norddeutscher Lloyd, moved the first class dining saloon to the centre of the ship, where it could rise two or more decks and have a skylight (pictured)?
Created/expanded by Yngvadottir (talk). Self nom at 21:10, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
- ALT1 ... that an American at the time described Johann Poppe's elaborate ocean liner decor as "two of everything but the kitchen range, then gilded"?
- ALT2 ... that an architecture critic described Johann Poppe's Bremen Cotton Exchange, whose ornamentation started falling on the heads of passersby, as the "crassest" manifestation of "cancerous" building styles?
- I've now reviewed Day of 7 Billion. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:34, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Great article, well referenced. I prefer the first hook, getting to the point right away, and would like to see a picture to illustrate it. Unfortunately, I find it only indirectly stated, and not with a reference right after it. Also salons, not saloons, right? - The prose of ALT2 is great reading in German, but looses in the necessary shortening and translation. Side note: I will have to understand why a ship appears in WP en as Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse (Kaiser Wilhelm der Große). What's supposed to be English? The man is named William I, German Emperor here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:38, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
for the original hook, thanks for the source, supply a pic if you like, I think they show the "style" better than words, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:17, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! I was writing out responses including both sources for the hook; I am going to place that here anyway in case anyone has any queries.
- I'd also prefer to use the first hook, rather than being negative about the poor man. The fact is stated in the article in this sentence: "He was responsible for the innovation of placing the first-class dining saloon in the centre of the ship, where it could be two or three decks high, lit by a giant skylight." That's followed by references 8 and 9. 8 is Straub's life of Albert Ballin; I've added a GoogleBooks link on the page number, from which it can be seen that the relevant sentence is: "Poppe hatte den großen Salon in die Mitte des Schiffes verlegt, über mehrere Stockwerke hinweg überkront von einer gläsernen Kuppel, die für den Lichteinfall sorgte." (Poppe had relocated the great saloon to the centre of the ship, crowned several storeys above by a glass cupola which provided natural light.) 9 is a puff piece in the March 1912 editionn of The Hampton Magazine which I at least can see on GoogleBooks; the relevant passage is: "Johan Poppe, designer for the North German Lloyd company, devised the plan that has been generally adopted for overcoming the cramped effect of a ship's broken-up interior and low ceilings. Saloons and music rooms with vaulted arches of cathedral glass now extend across the entire width . . ." So the English-language source refers to more than just the dining saloon, the German just to the dining saloon. I've changed the hook to refer to only the dining saloon, although the pictures make it clear that other rooms were also lighted by the light well even if there was only one light well. (The smoking rooms were traditionally aft, so the skylights visible in those are not the large amidships skylight which was the innovation. I'll also point out here that the innovation was related to the placement of the funnels in pairs fore and aft on German ships; British liners did not have that gap between the funnels amidships, which was where the great big skylights were placed.) (And I've also fixed my typo on Norddeutscher Lloyd, sigh.) Limiting the hook to the dining saloon means I've gone back to the more specific "saloon" from the more general "salon". Unfortunately for clarity, the language used to describe the accommodations on ocean liners - at least on now vanished ocean liners - is stuck in the past and very few sources call it a dining room rather than a dining saloon. A picture is a nice idea but just wouldn't work at this resolution. . . . As for Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse, it's weird that that redirects to SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse, but the underlying reason is simply that ship names are not translated. It's also SS Normandie for example. The name only gets translated if the ship is actually renamed - for example SS Amerika redirects to the SS America. I suspect people have reckoned that an English speaker is unlikely to look up Kaiser Wilhelm der Große entirely in German. Yngvadottir (talk) 15:38, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, learned again. - Ship: if it's not renamed (which I actually prefer, also for Schloss and Burg ... - Pillnitz is not a castle ...), why is it spelled differently? - I added a pic, thinking that although you don't see details, it's kind of attractive, shows the style even at that size, you see the skylight and should be tempted to click and see more. May the one who takes it to prep decide, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:16, 28 October 2011 (UTC)