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Template:Did you know nominations/Kido Witbooi

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 01:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Kido Witbooi

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Created by Pgallert (talk). Self nominated at 19:56, 10 February 2015 (UTC).

  • It's new and long enough. No image.. Article is neutral. No plagiarism. Hook is accurate. QPQ done. Everything is cited, I can't read all the sources but assuming good faith. Issues stated below. Pardon my style claims below, I am not African. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • QPQ needed.
  • [1] says "Captain", not Kaptein. Tribal chief does not mention that either. [2] calls Kido the eventual "hoofkaptein". So, which term should we use?
  • Related: [1] says "first established leader" but does not equate that to "first Kaptein". Suggest hook change to "first leader of the ǀKhowesin". Hook is otherwise accurate.
  • [3] says /Khowesin, not ǀKhowesin. Which is it?
  • [3] mentions crossing into the Fish River (Namibia), not Griqualand?
  • Minor content issue: [1] has information about his wives (Gâbes and U-khoms) and daughter Johanna that should be included.
  • Minor content issue: [2] says Pella was known as Kamas at the time of Kido's birth?
  • Minor content issue: From [2], is it important to say which tribe Kido's father and mother were from?
  • More to follow. @Pgallert: would you like to address these first? starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:30, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
@Starship.paint: Hi and thanks for the detailed feedback. Let me address some of your points:
  • The Orlam spoke Afrikaans at that time. In Afrikaans Kaptein is a tribal chief. English sources often anglicise it to Captain, but that is somewhat inconsistent, because they rarely anglicise other such vocabulary like hompa or memekulu. That's why I think Kaptein is better. Hoofkaptein is paramount chief, but that has a special meaning today: a chief with other chiefs under them.
  • It is ǀKhowesin. Not everyone is willing to look for the correct symbol of the dental click, that's why some type a pipe symbol and some a forward slash.
  • They first trekked into Griqualand, and then into Namaqualand. Griqualand is supported by the Dierks ref, I have made that explicit now. In order to get from Pella to the Fish River one has to cross the Orange. As the Oranje is still the southern border of Namibia/South West Africa I worded it this way.
I forgot about the QpQ, will do that now. Cheers, Pgallert (talk) 10:33, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
PS: I have added a review now. --Pgallert (talk) 11:11, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • @Pgallert: - Okay. Thanks for your quick reply. I have struck out the resolved concerns. I have now looked through the whole article. These should be the remaining issues.
  • Google doesn't let me read page 62 and 63 of [Hate the Old]. I am unable to verify that the last sentence of the Wikipedia article. Could you add to the |quote= ?
  • I'm still not convinced by "Kaptein". I need a source, any reliable source, even if in Afrikaans, calling him that. Unless you can produce that, I can't approve of the hook or the article calling him anything but "chief" [3][4] / "leader" [1] / "Captain" [1][4] or "hoofkaptein" [2]
  • As per [4] and [1], I don't think "Kido" is a short form of "Cupido". [4] says Kido (later Cupido) on page 166 so it is obviously an alternative name.
  • Could you add Around 1850 Witbooi and his clan had been invited by Jonker Afrikaner to travel to Windhoek. Minor content issue: Also, Witbooi never reached Windhoek right? If so, I'd like a mention.
  • Does [1] say that the ǀKhowesin (Witbooi Nama) are a subtribe of the Orlam of South-West Africa, present-day Namibia? I am not seeing it. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 11:51, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Hi User:Starship.paint, and sorry for the long silence. I had a few other fires to put out. By now it has transpired that I became a nominator, not a reviewer, of Manot Cave. I'll add a new review in due time. In the mean time I found references for the use of the word Kaptein, and for the ǀKhowesin being a subtribe of the Orlam. For privileged access to Google Books I have to be at work, please give me another day. --Pgallert (talk) 20:01, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
  • It's okay @Pgallert:. I have crossed out the resolved concerns, and highlighted the still unresolved ones in green. I have one additional concern - what is the difference between the Nama and the Orlam? [Tonchi, Lindeke & Grotpeter 2012] says that the Witboois are Namas while [Hate the Old] says that they are Orlam. Note: I will be on vacation for about a week. Might not have much Internet access. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 00:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I have added a new review. Enjoy your vacation, I will likewise be out of town without Internet access until Monday. --Pgallert (talk) 16:42, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the wait @Pgallert:, I'm back now. I can't read [6] but I'll AGF on that. I also read Oorlam people to clear up the Nama/Orlam. Any unstruck issues are minor issues for article expansion. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:07, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
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