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Template:Did you know nominations/Kully Thiarai

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 11:44, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

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Kully Thiarai

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Kully Thiarai
Kully Thiarai
Created by Lajmmoore (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 92 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Lajmmoore (talk) 08:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Lajmmoore: A neatly put together article improving coverage of women of color in the Britain. The most critical guidelines appear to be met. However, I noticed some other issues that I think would be best cleared up before advancing the nomination. While there's several, I think they could be cleared up relatively easily and don't need to impede the nomination much. Most of these matters are about clauses that either need a source or need to be trimmed because they lack a source.

  • Kully Thiarai FRSA is an artistic and creative director, whose career began in theatre: I think that comma is a splice and is best off trimmed, as the clause that follows is dependent, not independent.
  • During this time she commission a variety of new: Some typos: commission should be commissioned, and there seems to be a noun missing after new.
  • Kaahini by Maya Chowdhry: I suggest either finding a different source or trimming this info; something doesn't sit right with using as a source a URL that takes the reader by surprise by downloading a DOCX.
  • End of Season by Noel Greig, Sleeping Dogs by Philip Osment, and Crush by Rosy Fordham: The linked source, Greig's interview notes, only verify that End of Season was a show during Thiarai's tenure as artistic director at Red Ladder; I was unable to verify the rest.
  • co-instigated the Asian Theatre School: I was unable to identify in the provided sources why you use the word "co-instigated"; I didn't see a fellow "co-instigator" indicated. Additionally, would the source titled Dermot's Blog be considered self-published? Wikipedia's rules for biographical information about living people prohibit the use of "self-published sources" unless they are created by the subject themselves (generally this means eschewing the citation of blogs; however, newsblogs produced by journalistic publications are excepted). This Guardian interview seems like it'd be a better source for Thiarai's involvement with the Asian Theatre School.
  • In 1998 she moved work as Artistic Advisor at Contact Theatre in Manchester: The provided sources verify that Thiarai was an artistic director at Contact Theatre; not an advisor. Additionally, none of the sources verify that she began working at Contact in 1998; the History of Red Ladder only verifies that she left Red Ladder in 1998, and the other sources don't verify when Thiarai started at Contact. Additionally, when a term like artistic director is a relatively common title, does it need to be capitalized?
  • Whilst there she also worked with Noel Greig to create: Although the Guardian interview verifies that Thiarai was a Co-creat[or] of Contacting the World, the interview does not verify Greig's involvement, so that element is not verified.
  • She was later Artistic Director of Contact Theatre: Since available sources don't verify her having a different role at Contact, this sentence can be trimmed once the "advisor"/"director" matter is straightened out.
  • Thiarai was s co-artistic director with Paul: small typo.
  • She has used the term 'porous' to describe how to integrate communities practices with more traditional forms of theatre: Not strictly a problem—or at least, not a DYK-level problem—but this sentence seems rather random. Is smack in the middle of the chronology of her career the right place in the article for this comment about her creative philosophy?
  • National Theatre Wales in its inaugural year: The sources provided at the end of this sentence don't verify that this was specifically National Theatre Wales's inaugural year. Is that necessarily a needed detail anyway?
  • In 2012 she directed Mandala: The URL currently in the article is dead and unarchived; this link seems to go to the article you want.
  • based in Nottingham: The source appended to this sentence is labeled in an inadvetently misleading way; Issuu is a host website, not a publisher. This source would be better if identified by the author and publisher (or trimmed if such information to indicate reliability/verifiability is not available).
  • a new £22 million venue: Not strictly speaking a problem, but why cite CAST's website as a primary source for this when the same information is already in the Independent article, a secondary source? I would suggest moving the clause to appear before the Independent article citation.
  • One of her most noted productions was an adaptation of Kes: The two play reviews do verify that one of the productions was an adaptation of Kes, but they don't notify that this production was "most noted" above all other of Thiarai's productions. To conclude that would steer into original research.
  • Notable productions during her time there included: We’re Still Here: This is both odd to list with a colon when the list is only one item long and, like with Kes, not quite verified by the source. "More immediately" seems to be not a measure of importance but proximity. I would suggest rephrasing this just to remove the editorializing and say that We're Still Here was one of the productions. Also, a minor typo: you used a curled apostrophe rather than a straight apostrophe; the Manual of Style guides us to use straight quotation marks and apostrophes for consistency.
  • Thiarai moved to work as Creative Director of LEEDS 2023 in 2020: The source appears to verify that Thiarai's departure from NTW to work as director of LEEDS 2023 was in 2019, not 2020. Does creative director need to be capitalized when it is a relatively common title? Also, something about the particular link in the source citation did not work, though this link does.
  • critic Gary Raymond wrote: The citation in this sentence seems oddly placed; wouldn't it go here, at the end of the clause, or further down at the end of the block quotation?
  • an announcement that came days prior to the presentations that UK bidding cities were due to make.: This portion of the sentence does not seem to be verified in the cited sources. Including this source is confusing because it seems to erroneously put forward a claim precisely opposite what is in the article and is verified by the other sources.
  • Thiarai stated in December 2023 that, through This seems to be an unwarranted comma.
  • Northern Power List: Per the source, should this be "Northern Asian Power List"?

While these are numerous, I think most can be resolved either by deleting a sentence, replacing a source(s), or correcting wording, which is why I remain open to the nomination. Once all these are resolved, I'll happily approve the nomination. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 06:24, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Hydrangeans, thanks so much for the review, these changes all approve the article. I really appreciate the time you have taken to do this. Lajmmoore (talk) 21:14, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
@Lajmmoore: I'm just glad to be helpful. I notice a few matters that seem to have slipped through:
  • She also co-founded the Asian Theatre School: The provided sources still don't seem to verify the "co" part; no other human founders are mentioned. Is the Theatre in the Mill being treated as the other "co-founder"? That seems odd, since Theatre in the Mill is an institution, not an individual.
  • In 1998 she moved work at Contact Theatre: Is this meant to be "moved to work at Contact Theatre"? Or "began a new job at Contact Theatre"? By way of note, I presume good faith that the The Art of the Artistic Director verifies the 1998 aspect of this information.
  • In 2012 she directed Mandala The Birmingham Live link is still dead. The problem seems to be that you are putting HTTP instead of HTTPS in the URL: the former is dead; the latter still works.
  • (Notable productions during her time there included: We're Still Here: Not a problem, just a note: on a reread, I see the Guardian article explicitly states It was NTW's equivalent of the National Theatre of Scotland’s Black Watch, one of those rare shows that people still talk about with awe, so I think that's verification.)
Thank you for the revisions so far. Once the above three matters in need of revision (since the last bullet is just a comment and not something needing revision) are resolved, as I've said I'll be happy to approve the nomination. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 21:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Hydrangeans, thanks very much for picking these up - I had thought I had addressed them but must have missed them in haste. Thanks again for the help and patience Lajmmoore (talk) 15:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for the additional revisions. Some further minor touch ups are possible, but DYK does not require articles to be perfect, and I'm satisfied with approving the nomination at this time. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 16:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
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