Template:Did you know nominations/Maddalena Mariani Masi

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 10:57, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Maddalena Mariani Masi

(

)

Costume design for Mariani Masi in La Gioconda

... that Maddalena Mariani Masi performed the title role of Ponchielli's La Gioconda in the world premiere at La Scala in Milan (costume design pictured), and at several Italian theatres and the Liceu in Barcelona? Source: [1]

Reviewed: ~~to come~~

Created by Adam Cuerden (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 21:41, 25 October 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Copyvio check had 0% success at checking for plagiarism, presumably because major sources are foreign language. I suggest a small change to hook, adding "1876" before world premiere for context. Hook is 184 characters currently. Image appears on Archivio Storico Ricordi website without a copyright statement. Terms and conditions of website appear to prohibit use of all information, but elsewhere on the Archivio site there is a claim to be using CC BY-SA 4 where appropriate. Copyright status needs to be clarified please. DrThneed (talk) 06:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. I don't think the precise year matters. People knowing opera will know that Ponchielli's works were premiered in the 19th century, and others may be more intrigued by the relation to Da Vinci's painting than some precise year. Please have a bit of patience. I just discovered the article yesterday night, only added enough to make it eligible for DYK, but the sources have much more detail which perhaps Adam or Voce want to get over, for whose who don't read Italian. Then I'll do a qpq and ping you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:22, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

The image is part of a release through Wikipedians in Residence. And it's by Alfredo Edel, who died in 1912, hence well out of copyright in any case (Italy uses Life+70). Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.6% of all FPs} 13:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Costume design for Mariani Masi in La Gioconda

Here's a cropped alt image, that might work better at such a reduced size. — Maile (talk) 23:38, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

OK, have adjusted the review to reflect confirmation the image is OK to use. I do prefer the cropped one. Awaiting QPQ. DrThneed (talk) 04:30, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/Marla Berkowitz, DrThneed. --Gerda Arendt

Gerda Arendt Thank you. Have changed the review icon.DrThneed (talk) 10:23, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

(talk) 09:44, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the cropped image. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.6% of all FPs} 10:27, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh, if we wanted to shorten the hook, we could always drop everything after the close parentheses. That it became a bit of a signature rôle is perhaps useful information, but people will learn that if they click over. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.6% of all FPs} 01:25, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Ah yes, I agree, that is much hookier! DrThneed (talk) 01:44, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that Maddalena Mariani Masi performed the title role of Ponchielli's La Gioconda in the 1876 world premiere at La Scala (costume design pictured)?

@DrThneed: Could you review ALT1? Oh. Do note her surname is "Mariani Masi", not just "Masi", hence the caption. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.6% of all FPs} 22:07, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

@Adam Cuerden: ALT1 approved. Re her name, it might be good to indicate clearly the name in the article, I appreciate it says that her birth name is different but as you saw it wasn't clear to me that her surname was Mariani Masi and not just Masi. (Did she change her name for the stage, or was it a married name?).DrThneed (talk) 03:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Not entirely sure, just noticed sources very definitely use that as her surname. A lot of the sources are in Italian for obvious reasons, and it's hard to do library research when all libraries in Scotland are closed. Hence this being at DYK, and not GA, I suppose. Was able to find some sources for a hyphenated variant that may make it clearer. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.6% of all FPs} 07:21, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I took the liberty to get ALT1 in chronology, and move the "?". I wonder, though, why you'd drop the hint at international performances. Someone hooked by the Scala will not give up just because Liceu is also mentioned, I guess ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

It's not that there's anything wrong with mentioning the international performances, just felt like it was a little too much information for a one-sentence hook. Those interested will click through and learn of the international performances. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.6% of all FPs} 07:51, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

All fine, and sometimes the prep builder needs a short hook for Main page balance, sometimes a longer one. Just for my reasons: I think of those readers who will NOT click. (Milions read the Main page, but probably 2.5k will look at her when pictured, and 1k if not.) It doesn't hurt to give THEM a bit more information. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm fine with whichever being grabbed by the prep builder. I just suspect that, given La Gioconda isn't the best-known opera name (even if everyone knows The Dance of the Hours), and the Liceu is less well-known than La Scala... think that it might be better to accept this is a little on the obscure side for a general audience, and keep it as simple as possible. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.6% of all FPs} 08:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC)