- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 13:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
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Mannenberg
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Ibrahim in 2011
... that "Mannenberg" has been described as the "most iconic of all South African jazz tunes"?- ALT1:
... that Abdullah Ibrahim's instrumental piece "Mannenberg" was influenced by the forced removal of Coloured families from District Six? - ALT2:... that the instrumental piece "Mannenberg" by Abdullah Ibrahim (pictured) was influenced by the forced relocation of Coloured families by the South African government during apartheid?
- ALT1:
- Reviewed: René Morax
Improved to Good Article status by Vanamonde93 (talk). Self-nominated at 09:25, 24 July 2017 (UTC).
Fascinating detailed account, on good sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. - Hook: the original is too general, and without a hint at the background, and they will ask us who said so. I would not mention the borrough, it detracts attention. Instead of "instrumental piece", could you say something like "iconic jazz whatever". - I don't like "musical piece" in the article, the same, - why not song? Or is there a more precise term? Can you split up "South African Cape jazz", - a sea of blue? Did I miss something, or is unexplained how we get from Manenberg to Mannenberg? What's Manenburg? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:59, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Please suggest an image of the artist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:02, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Many thanks for the review, as always. Sea of blue split: I've gone with "song", though I avoided it in the original because people jump to the conclusion that that means lyrics. For that reason I'd like to stick to "piece" in the hook. I've added an image, and tweaked ALT2 to accommodate it. "Manenberg" is the township, "Mannenberg" the piece; it was a deliberately chosen spelling, don't ask me why. Nobody actually discusses the variation. Vanamonde (talk) 13:30, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you, especially for the image! How is this then:
- ALT3:
... that the Cape jazz pianist Abdullah Ibrahim (pictured) recorded "Mannenberg" in response to the forced relocation of Coloured families by the South African government?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:39, 27 July 2017 (UTC)- @Gerda Arendt: If you have a strong preference we can go with that: but I prefer ALT2, because the piece being instrumental, but still political, is probably the most fascinating thing about it, don't you think? ALT3 would be fine, too, if we can work in "instrumental", but that takes us back to my phrasing. Vanamonde (talk) 14:11, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Saying pianist, and picturing a pianist: do we really have to say "instrumental"? We have to raise curiosity, not alreasy say what it is?
Approve ALT2 and ALT3, image licensed and helpful to understand the hook right. If you word ALT4 with "instrumental" I will approve that also ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:17, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks! Pictured a pianist, to be sure, but there's many pianists who also sang; Ray Charles springs to mind :) Which is why I prefer it explicit. Vanamonde (talk) 14:20, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Word ALT4, much better anyway if I don't approve "my own" hook ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Well it also wasn't directly in response to, because the move was in the 1950s and the song recorded in 1974...which is why I went with the structure of ALT2...Vanamonde (talk) 16:09, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- A response doesn't have to come immediately. - At present, only ALT2 is approved, but I confess that I find "instrumental piece", saying nothing about jazz, too general, thus almost misleading, and boring. Open for alternatives. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:55, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Well it also wasn't directly in response to, because the move was in the 1950s and the song recorded in 1974...which is why I went with the structure of ALT2...Vanamonde (talk) 16:09, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Word ALT4, much better anyway if I don't approve "my own" hook ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks! Pictured a pianist, to be sure, but there's many pianists who also sang; Ray Charles springs to mind :) Which is why I prefer it explicit. Vanamonde (talk) 14:20, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: If you have a strong preference we can go with that: but I prefer ALT2, because the piece being instrumental, but still political, is probably the most fascinating thing about it, don't you think? ALT3 would be fine, too, if we can work in "instrumental", but that takes us back to my phrasing. Vanamonde (talk) 14:11, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- ALT4 ... that pianist Abdullah Ibrahim recorded the Cape jazz instrumental [piece] "Mannenberg" in response to the forced relocation of Coloured families by the South African government during apartheid?
- fine, - I put "piece" in brackets because I believe it's better without. - You could say "in memory" or "as a statement against" if you think a response has to be immediate. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:11, 27 July 2017 (UTC)