- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:09, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
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Matar Matar
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that Bahrain TV aired footage showing a defendant (pictured) who had died due to torture accusing resigned MP Matar Matar of instructing him to kill policemen?
- Reviewed: List of works by Amir Hamzah
Moved to mainspace by Mohamed CJ (talk). Self nominated at 15:49, 21 June 2013 (UTC).
This is inappropriate for the main page. The image of a body with torture marks are especially inappropriate for the main page. SL93 (talk) 06:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)- Articles must meet the neutral point of view policy. Articles on living individuals are carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals or promote one side of an ongoing dispute should be avoided. SL93 (talk) 06:01, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
- Furthermore, the hook itself is kind of incomprehensible to me. It may need revision by a native speaker of English in collaboration with the nominator. rʨanaɢ (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
- This is Mohamed CJ, article creator and nominator. If review finds the hook unapproperiate, I have no problem picking another one when I return home early July, however the claim that article is not neutral is unfounded. Sources used are high quality such as Human Rights Watch and BICI Report. Mohamed CJ 17:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
- I never claimed that. It was just a copy and paste. The relevant part is "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals or promote one side of an ongoing dispute should be avoided". SL93 (talk) 17:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
- I see. Please excuse me for my hastly reply and any spelling/grammar mistakes as I'm writing from a phone (which I'm not used to). Also thank you for your review.
ALT1 ... that Matar Matar, who represented Bahrain's largest electoral constituency was targeted by the government due to his actions during the Bahraini uprising?Mohamed CJ (talk) 09:16, 29 June 2013 (UTC)- The new hook is much better, but we cannot use it as written because the source does not say he was targeted by the government -- and, anyway, that would be hard to prove. I suggest the following variant:
ALT2 ... that Matar Matar, who represented Bahrain's largest electoral constituency in the parliament, was arrested by masked men and kept in solitary confinement due to his actions in the Bahraini uprising? --Orlady (talk) 16:22, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
- @Orlady: Thank you for looking into the article. There is actually a source which says "actions that later made him a government target"[1]. Your suggested alternative hook is absolutely fine with me; I'd only add "allegedly" before "kept in solitary confinement", since the government denied this (I've clarified it in the article). This would make it slightly longer than 200 characters, so perhaps we can lose the last part:
- ALT3 ... that Matar Matar, who represented Bahrain's largest electoral constituency in the parliament, was allegedly arrested by masked men and
allegedlykept in solitary confinement? - ALT4 ... that Matar Matar, who represented Bahrain's largest electoral constituency in the parliament, was allegedly arrested by masked men,
allegedlykept in solitary confinement and subjected to mistreatment? Mohamed CJ (talk) 17:10, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
- The new hook is much better, but we cannot use it as written because the source does not say he was targeted by the government -- and, anyway, that would be hard to prove. I suggest the following variant:
- I see. Please excuse me for my hastly reply and any spelling/grammar mistakes as I'm writing from a phone (which I'm not used to). Also thank you for your review.
- I never claimed that. It was just a copy and paste. The relevant part is "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals or promote one side of an ongoing dispute should be avoided". SL93 (talk) 17:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
- This is Mohamed CJ, article creator and nominator. If review finds the hook unapproperiate, I have no problem picking another one when I return home early July, however the claim that article is not neutral is unfounded. Sources used are high quality such as Human Rights Watch and BICI Report. Mohamed CJ 17:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
If we can't state as a fact that he was held in solitary confinement (I had the impression that the solitary confinement was confirmed, whereas the torture was alleged, but I can see the need for the "allegedly"), we definitely can't state as a fact that he was targeted by the government. Also, it appears that even the arrest by masked men is not proven. After seeing your comments, I put a ?-tick on my ALT2 hook suggestion and I moved the word "allegedly" in ALT3 and ALT4 to show that even the arrest is an allegation. The article should be revised to describe the solitary confinement (and the arrest by masked men) as "reported" or "alleged" (or equivalent words), rather than stating these things as facts. Once that is done, I think ALT3 and ALT4 can be verified. Also, there could be other ways to word the hook to tell the story. For example:
- ALT5 ... that Matar Matar, who represented Bahrain's largest electoral constituency in the parliament, was imprisoned and allegedly tortured due to his role in the Bahraini uprising?
We're almost there.... --Orlady (talk) 20:14, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
- Done. I appreciate your feedback as the article is currently at GAN. I prefer ALT5 over the others. Mohamed CJ (talk) 02:56, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
