- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 10:21, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
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Mi Shebeirach
- ... that the Mi Shebeirach for healing, a central prayer in liberal Jewish ritual, was written by romantic partners Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel amidst the AIDS crisis? Source: [1] p. 173 for "central prayer"; [2] for rest
- ALT1: ... that Reform Judaism traditionally eschewed public prayers of healing, but Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel's Mi Shebeirach, written in response to the AIDS crisis,
becamehas become a central prayer? Source: ditto - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Hickson Inc.
- Comment: All paywalled sources are available through The Wikipedia Library.
- ALT1: ... that Reform Judaism traditionally eschewed public prayers of healing, but Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel's Mi Shebeirach, written in response to the AIDS crisis,
Moved to mainspace by Tamzin (talk). Self-nominated at 23:42, 9 December 2022 (UTC).
Wow, I'm really surprised that no article has been written on this until now. But better late than never and you've done a really good job of it. Article length okay, creation date versus filing date okay, neutrality and sourcing good, no evident signs of copyvio. QPQ done.I'm not quite sold on the hooks though. Both ALT0 and ALT1 as written conflate the centuries-old prayer with the Friedman setting, something the article itself is careful to separate out. And neither hook makes clear that the Friedman "Mi Shebeirach" is powerful now, decades removed from the crisis that led to its writing. The article makes this point – with text such as "the emotional highlight of synagogue services for countless Jews" – but the hooks don't really capture that. Finally, I think ALT0's mention of the writers being romantic partners might derail readers a bit – the article actually places more emphasis on the feminist aspects of the writing.One other thing that the article might mention is that some temples will occasionally switch to an alternate selection in this part of a service, "Heal Us Now" by Cantor Leon Sher, which has some intersection of words and feeling with the Friedman "Mi Shebeirach". I'm not sure how widespread it is, but looking on YouTube I see a fair number of videos of congregations using it. I don't know the history behind it though. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:56, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Wasted Time R: Yeah, I was surprised too! I'd venture most editors writing about liberal Judaism are usually happy to let the Orthodox editors handle the liturgical stuff, but didn't realize that the most notable version of the prayer is a mostly liberal phenomenon; while Orthodox editors weren't writing about the broader concept because it's such a generic topic, and one that doesn't get much rabbinic or academic coverage.So, as to distinguishing the prayers, ALT1 says "Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel's Mi Shebeirach", so I would think that ought to suffice, since it's like saying "Mozart's Requiem"? If it doesn't, I'm missing the issue. With ALT0, hmm, I'll propose
- ALT0a: ... that Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel's Mi Shebeirach for healing, written by the couple amidst the AIDS crisis,
becamehas become a central prayer in liberal Jewish ritual? - ALT0b: ... that Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel's Mi Shebeirach for healing, written by the couple amidst the AIDS crisis,
becamehas become "the emotional highlight of synagogue services" for many Jews?
- ALT0a: ... that Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel's Mi Shebeirach for healing, written by the couple amidst the AIDS crisis,
- I do think it's worth mentioning that they were a couple, as it emphasizes the queer origins of the song. The idea that this was written by two women in a relationship, in response to the deaths of many gay people, is I think the most interesting thing about it. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 04:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Wasted Time R: Yeah, I was surprised too! I'd venture most editors writing about liberal Judaism are usually happy to let the Orthodox editors handle the liturgical stuff, but didn't realize that the most notable version of the prayer is a mostly liberal phenomenon; while Orthodox editors weren't writing about the broader concept because it's such a generic topic, and one that doesn't get much rabbinic or academic coverage.So, as to distinguishing the prayers, ALT1 says "Debbie Friedman and Drorah Setel's Mi Shebeirach", so I would think that ought to suffice, since it's like saying "Mozart's Requiem"? If it doesn't, I'm missing the issue. With ALT0, hmm, I'll propose
- @Tamzin: Hmm, I didn't think of the Mozart's Requiem analogy, you have a point. So I'm okay with ALT1 and ALT0a/ALT0b on that aspect. What about if for all of them, you change "became" to "has become"? That would indicate that the importance of the Friedman "Mi Shebeirach" is still being felt now and is not just in the past. Wasted Time R (talk) 21:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Wasted Time R: Or could borrow from the Christians and make it "is become".
;)But yeah, I like that.
Done :D-- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 01:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Okay, I'm good with any of ALT1, ALT0a, or ALT0b as they now stand. My preference is for ALT0b, but the DYK promoter can choose the hook they like best. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Wasted Time R: Or could borrow from the Christians and make it "is become".
- @Tamzin: Hmm, I didn't think of the Mozart's Requiem analogy, you have a point. So I'm okay with ALT1 and ALT0a/ALT0b on that aspect. What about if for all of them, you change "became" to "has become"? That would indicate that the importance of the Friedman "Mi Shebeirach" is still being felt now and is not just in the past. Wasted Time R (talk) 21:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
