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Template:Did you know nominations/Nathaniel Coe

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Premeditated Chaos talk 03:29, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Nathaniel Coe

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Sketch of Nathaniel Coe c. 1850
Sketch of Nathaniel Coe c. 1850
Created by AnotherColonialHistorian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

AnotherColonialHistorian (talk) 15:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC).

  •  Reviewing... will post my comments this afternoon! Flibirigit (talk) 15:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
  • @AnotherColonialHistorian: With respect to the birth date footnote, does it mean that both sources state his birth date could be September 6 or September 12, or does it mean that one source says September 6 and the other September 12? Please clarify, thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 16:02, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - ?
  • Interesting: No - ?
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article was moved to the mainspace on July 13 and nominated the same day. Length is adequate. Sourcing is mostly complete, but I have two questions: Please clarify the question above on the footnote for the birthdate, and the source for the quotebox titled "For Susan Amelia Coe". I'm also curious on the purpose of the quotebox, as I am not sure how it is relevant. The article appears neutral in tone, and no plagiarism was detected. All images used in the article have a public domain license on the Commons. The nominated image is clear at a resolution and enhances the hook. QPQ has been completed although it was not required. All of the proposed hooks are verbose, and depend on the reader's knowledge of Tony Goldwyn and Robert Coe (colonist). I feel like these are not globally known persons and detract from the interest in clicking on Nathaniel Coe. I think shorter hooks would work better here, without the family members mentioned. Will wait for the nominator to reply before further analysis on the hooks. Overall the article looks to be in good shape and is a welcome contribution to Wikipedia! Flibirigit (talk) 20:24, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@Flibirigit: How do these sound?
  • ALT4a ... that the founder of Hood River, Oregon, Nathaniel Coe (pictured), served in all three branches of the state's government?
  • ALT5 ... that Nathaniel Coe (pictured) and his wife led an initiative to change the name of Dog River, Oregon due to its vulgar origin?
ALT5 is not exactly directly stated in the article but rather is suggested, so I get if it can't be used. In addition, would a hook based on During the 71st session of the Assembly, Coe introduced the first-of-its-kind anti-rape bill "An act to punish seduction." It was passed into law on March 22, 1848. work? I also noticed that there's a mention of "democrat" instead of "Democrat". Finally, per WP:DYKCOMPLETE, if information could be found about his later life and death, that would we welcome as it's not currently in the article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:32, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
The nominator has not edited since July 28.[1] Searching on Newspapers.com via the Wikipedia Library is hindered by a service issue.[2] There's no rush here. Best to wait a few days on this. Flibirigit (talk) 03:23, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Given the nominator hasn't edited in almost a month and no other editor has adopted the nominator, it is now marked for closure as abandoned. No prejudice against it continuing if another editor, perhaps Flibirigit, adopts it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:02, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Patience is a virtue. This nomination is not yet two months old, nor has anyone posted it at WT:DYK for adoption. Flibirigit (talk) 12:15, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
@Flibirigit: I don't want to act like a crystal ball, but the nominator hasn't edited in almost a month, which isn't a good sign regardless of the fact it was only reviewed a few days ago. Given that you have already edited the article and the issues don't seem to be insurmountable, are you willing to adopt this nomination in the nom's stead? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:02, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Please stop pinging me here, and please stop being in a rush. Flibirigit (talk) 13:06, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Flibirigit, I've deleted the footnote for the birthdate, as I confirmed both sources cited in the footnote were in parity with Sept. 6 as the birthdate. No idea why the footnote was created or where the Sept. 12 comes from. Viriditas (talk) 20:37, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Flibirigit, I've deleted the quote box. It doesn't really belong here and isn't relevant. It was presumably added by the editor because it's an example of poetry by his wife, but that's very tangential to the bio. Viriditas (talk) 20:43, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
@Viriditas: I've already proposed two new hooks above (ALT4a and ALT5), please let me know if either works. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:43, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: Apologies, I thought we could start fresh and adhere to some semblance of the original intent of the nom. I think a new, original hook combining the elements of ALT2 and ALT3 in shortened form would be super interesting! In other words, did you know that Nathaniel Coe declined a nomination to the United States Senate, choosing instead to serve as an inspector for the United States Postal Service? That's so weird that someone would choose to do that, which is why I think it makes an unusual and interesting hook. Could you come up with something based on that factoid? Perhaps something even better? Viriditas (talk) 23:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
That might work. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:48, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
Viriditas, thanks for adopting the nomination. I will review the changes by the end of tomorrow. Flibirigit (talk) 01:50, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Concerns regarding birth date and sourcing have been resolved. I have struck the names of the family members from the hooks as per my original review. I have declined ALT2 and ALT3 as neither are interesting to a broad audience. Will continue my review shortly with the remaining hooks. Flibirigit (talk) 22:06, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
  • The birth date was changed to be September 6, 1788, but now there is no citation anywhere for the date. The death date is listed as October 17, 1868, but there is no citation anywhere for the date. As for the hooks, which source explicity verifies that "Nathaniel Coe was the founder of Hood River, Oregon"? This source says that the Coe family were the original owners of a land grant. This source states "first white settlers". Neither of them explicity state founding the town. I'm unsure if the offline sources are better. Verifying ALT0, ALT1, ALT4, ALT4a are difficult without clear sourcing. ALT5 is not explicitly stated in the article, so I'm unsure how to verify it. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 14:18, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Fixed birth date and citation.[3] Viriditas (talk) 21:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Fixed death date and citation.[4] Viriditas (talk) 21:33, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
  • As for the hooks, per my suggestion up above, combining the elements of ALT1 and ALT2 makes for an interesting hook: Did you know...that Nathaniel Coe declined a nomination to the United States Senate, choosing instead to serve as an inspector for the United States Postal Service? That someone would turn down a Senate nomination for a Postal Service appointment is unfathomable today, as a US Senator is one of the most powerful positions in the country. Perhaps Coe was afraid of losing the election and the appointment was more secure, I don't know, but I find the proposed hook interesting. Viriditas (talk) 21:36, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
  • ALT6a ... that Nathaniel Coe (pictured) declined a nomination to the United States Senate, choosing instead to serve as an inspector for the United States Postal Service? Source: "Life of a Boy in Pioneer Days". Hood River Glacier. May 24, 1923.
  • ALT6b ... that Nathaniel Coe (pictured) declined a nomination to the United States Senate, choosing instead to serve inspector the United States Postal Inspection Service? Source: "Life of a Boy in Pioneer Days". Hood River Glacier. May 24, 1923.
  • I have formatted two hooks based on what was just proposed above. Will analyze them tonight. Flibirigit (talk) 21:47, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
  • I'm still in the process of looking at the sources, but from what I can tell, the DYK claim appears to have been published by the Hood River Glacier for many years, between 1915 and 1923,in two different article series, one series in 1915 called "Story of Nathaniel and Mary Coe", and the other called "Life of a Boy in Pioneer Days", of which columns appeared in 1923 (although there are likely more). From the 1923 column: "After serving three full terms in the state Assembly, he declined the nomination for the United States senator to accept the office of Special Postal Agent for the Pacific Northwest and in the fall of 1852 departed for his post of duties..." The Columbia Gorge Museum was kind enough to upload a PDF of the original article, however they got the date wrong and changed 1923 to 1926 for some odd reason. Viriditas (talk) 22:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Just fixed the source in the body. The nominator got the date wrong as well. Viriditas (talk) 22:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the update. Will have to look at this tomorrow. Busy in real life tonight. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 03:19, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
  • I noticed that in this source, it gives Coe's birth date as September 28, 1879, and his death date as October 17, 1869. Seems not to agree with the other sources already cited. The same source is more clear on him being the founder of Hood River, and it verifies ALT6a and ALT6b as hooks. Flibirigit (talk) 22:03, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Looks like an error. The papers held by the Oregon Historical Society Research Library (OHSRL) list September 6, 1788, as his birthdate.[5] Having worked on biographical articles quite a bit, this is a common problem. I would defer to the more official source in this case (OHSRL).[6] Writer Janice Marschner also supports the birth and death years in her book Oregon 1859 (2008) which was published by Timber Press.[7] Viriditas (talk) 22:30, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Approving ALT6a, ALT6b and ALT0. I'm satisfied with the above discussion regarding birth and death dates. All concerns regarding sourcing have been addressed. ALT6a and ALT6b are both interesting, cited, and verified. ALT0 is interesting with the family names removed, cited and verified. ALT5 is declined as per my previous review about it not being explicitly cited. ALT4/ALT4a are declined since the wording is not clear that is was a politician in New York State rather than Oregon. ALT1 is declined since the wording in the article says he was elected three times, and appointed a justice of the peace, which is markedly different from the hook. Thanks to User:Viriditas for adopting this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 03:01, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
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