- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by PFHLai (talk) 05:14, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
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Omi Shrine
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that the Japanese Omi Jingu shinto shrine (pictured), which honors Emperor Tenji and holds karuta and water clock festivals, has been recently popularized by manga Chihayafuru?
- Reviewed: Inchdrewer Castle
Created by Farnesoid (talk), Piotrus (talk). Nominated by Piotrus (talk) at 13:31, 5 January 2014 (UTC).
Nominated for DYK two days after creation, and contains about 2.5kB of prose (this excludes the lists in the text), satisfying date and length criteria. Ref 1 is used to support a claim about the Omi Jingu Clock Museum, which is not mentioned in the source document. The claim "forms a part of the temple's heritage" is not in the source document of the citation. The sentence fragment "the water clock was installed in 671" is not supported by any of the four associated citations (but is stated in one of the refs from the searches I've listed below). The text "The title ... for high school students is held every July." was copied from competitive karuta, and most of it is superfluous to this article (the article will still be long enough if this text is deleted or reduced). The section "Monument status" has three large lists, none of which are supported with citations. Please fix bare ref (#8). Regarding the references, many are to tourism organizations and may have questionable reliability. I think some of these could be replaced by more reliable sources (Google Book searches: "omi+shrine" Omi shrine, "omi+jingu" Omi Jingu, "tenji+shrine+in+otsu" Tenji shrine in Otsu, and others turn up some potential refs). Mindmatrix 17:21, 7 January 2014 (UTC)- Note: QPQ completed. Mindmatrix 17:35, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that the Japanese shinto shrine Omi Jingu (pictured), dedicated to Emperor Tenji, holds karuta and water clock festivals and has been recently popularized by manga Chihayafuru?
- BTW: the Sanmi ref has details about a tea ceremony occurring the day before the water clock festival that could be incorporated into the text. Mindmatrix 17:35, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
- @User:Mindmatrix I am ok with ALT1. I have added a missing ref for 671, formatted the bare ref. I think that the remaining refs are reliable enough. Remaining unreferenced content has been translated by User:Farnesoid from Japanese Wikipedia. I think we can AGF it; while it would be nice to get a reference for it this is beyond me, as it likely requires someone who can read Japanese. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
- The lists in the Japanese version of the article are not sourced either, so I can't AGF for those; I won't assume good faith for unsourced material. Tourism websites and travel guides are generally poor sources; I'd be willing to accept one or two such sources in the article for basic data (location etc.), but not when such sources represent 2/3 of all references in the article (and an even greater percentage of citations). Note that use of such sources has been discussed and rejected before for WP:RS (example 1, example 2). The Google searches I've provided above should lead to some usable references to replace the tourism refs. Please use a better source to corroborate that the pavilion is a registered tangible property (the current source is a primary source to the shrine's website). I've made a number of edits myself, and verified your changes, but these issues remain. Mindmatrix 21:04, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
- @Mindmatrix:: Could you list which references you consider unreliable? I have verified that [1] can be safely removed if you think it is not reliable. For example, official government tourism-related websites are, IMHO, reliable. I think it is also common practice to accept uncontroversial claims from primary sources (websites) for monuments, but perhaps User:Farnesoid (ping) will be able to find a better reference? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:07, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
- The lists in the Japanese version of the article are not sourced either, so I can't AGF for those; I won't assume good faith for unsourced material. Tourism websites and travel guides are generally poor sources; I'd be willing to accept one or two such sources in the article for basic data (location etc.), but not when such sources represent 2/3 of all references in the article (and an even greater percentage of citations). Note that use of such sources has been discussed and rejected before for WP:RS (example 1, example 2). The Google searches I've provided above should lead to some usable references to replace the tourism refs. Please use a better source to corroborate that the pavilion is a registered tangible property (the current source is a primary source to the shrine's website). I've made a number of edits myself, and verified your changes, but these issues remain. Mindmatrix 21:04, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm assuming good faith for the Japanese references. I've used online translation services to test some, and those seem legitimate (despite the poor translation). The government tourism websites are OK for how they source info here. (I would get rid of the Hello Japan source, though.) I'm not fond of "The list of annual celebrations and events" section (I'd prefer to see prose for that section), though it doesn't affect this DYK nomination. The image is GFDL, used in the infobox, and is OK at this size. Hook ALT1 good to go. Mindmatrix 02:55, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
