- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Aoidh (talk) 16:13, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
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Perla Batalla
... that Perla Batalla was a backup singer for Leonard Cohen before becoming a solo singer under his encouragement?Source: Kubernik, Harvey (2014). Leonard Cohen : Everybody Knows. London: Omnibus Press. ISBN 9781783053179. page 219 , https://web.archive.org/web/20210506101938/https://mmusicmag.com/m/2010/09/perla-batalla/
Improved to Good Article status by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 19:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC).
I love Leonard Cohen, so thank you for improving and nominating this article about one of his illustrious protégés. Article recently promoted to GA status, so new enough and long enough. Nicely written, neutrally phrased, cited using reliable sources, no copyvio. QPQ done. My question about the hook is that the article does not state that Batalla became a solo singer with Cohen's encouragement - it says he encouraged her to write her own songs. Could you perhaps rephrase slightly to say "solo singer-songwriter with his encouragement"? Or propose an ALT or two? Topshelver (talk) 21:38, 25 December 2022 (UTC)- Pinging Onegreatjoke (talk) to make sure they see this query. Topshelver (talk) 13:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Topshelver: How about
- ALT0a:
... that Perla Batalla was a backup singer for Leonard Cohen before becoming a solo singer-songwriter with his encouragement?Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:39, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
I like this version. Approved for DYK. Topshelver (talk) 18:26, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Topshelver and Onegreatjoke: I was going to promote this, but could not easily find the fact in hook ALT0a clearly stated on the Perla Batalla article page. Am I missing something? If not, could the fact be added with citation? (I see there is a somewhat similar claim in the lede, but there is no citation there, and really the claim made in the hook and in the article should match.) Cielquiparle (talk) 11:57, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Re-pinging Topshelver and Onegreatjoke to address question above. Cielquiparle (talk) 13:58, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle: Well there's "in 1988 and 1993, she toured as a backup singer with Cohen, who encouraged her to write her own songs." as the first sentence of the second paragraph though i guess it doesn't state the hook exactly. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:51, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle: Yes, Onegreatjoke indicates the sentence I was using to verify the hook. The article includes a list of her solo albums, so coupled with the fact that Batalla was encouraged to write her own songs by Cohen per the sentence in question, the facts claimed in the hook seemed sufficiently documented to me. Topshelver (talk) 13:47, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Topshelver: Oh. I read the comment from Onegreatjoke as conceding that the hook and the statement in the article didn't match. Per #3b of WP:DYKCRIT:
Each fact in the hook must be supported in the article by at least one inline citation to a reliable source, appearing no later than the end of the sentence(s) offering that fact.
Maybe Onegreatjoke could tweak the hook a bit? And/or propose a new one? Cielquiparle (talk) 14:17, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Topshelver: Oh. I read the comment from Onegreatjoke as conceding that the hook and the statement in the article didn't match. Per #3b of WP:DYKCRIT:
- @Cielquiparle: Yes, Onegreatjoke indicates the sentence I was using to verify the hook. The article includes a list of her solo albums, so coupled with the fact that Batalla was encouraged to write her own songs by Cohen per the sentence in question, the facts claimed in the hook seemed sufficiently documented to me. Topshelver (talk) 13:47, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Topshelver and Onegreatjoke: I was going to promote this, but could not easily find the fact in hook ALT0a clearly stated on the Perla Batalla article page. Am I missing something? If not, could the fact be added with citation? (I see there is a somewhat similar claim in the lede, but there is no citation there, and really the claim made in the hook and in the article should match.) Cielquiparle (talk) 11:57, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Onegreatjoke, per request, would you be able to supply a modified or alternative hook that directly reflects the #3b criterion? Maybe something as simple as that Perla Batalla toured as a backup singer with Leonard Cohen, who encouraged her to write her own songs? Topshelver (talk) 21:45, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Topshelver:
... that Perla Batalla was a backup singer for Leonard Cohen, who would encourage her to write her own songs?"Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:53, 20 January 2023 (UTC)- Haha, thanks! @Cielquiparle:, do you feel that this ALT meets the #3b criterion? Topshelver (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes but "would encourage" is clunky, so how about:
- ALT0c: ... that Perla Batalla was once a backup singer for Leonard Cohen, who encouraged her to write her own songs?
- The wording is of "encouraged her to write her own songs" is exactly what the source says, but there is no other good way to say it, I don't think. Inserting "once" hints that she wasn't a backup singer for the rest of her career. @Topshelver: What do you think? Cielquiparle (talk) 06:34, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle:, adding "once" strengthens and clarifies the hook. ALT0c looks good to me! Topshelver (talk) 01:38, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes but "would encourage" is clunky, so how about:
- Haha, thanks! @Cielquiparle:, do you feel that this ALT meets the #3b criterion? Topshelver (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Topshelver:
