- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by Allen3 talk 13:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Close paraphrasing issues, no activity by nominator for past three weeks.
Pyu city-states
edit- ... that Pyu city-states, which existed between the 2nd century BCE and the 9th century CE, were the earliest known city-states in Burmese history?
- Reviewed: St Mary's Church, Llanfair-yn-y-Cwmwd
Created/expanded by Hybernator (talk). Self nom at 01:02, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- ALT1:... that the traditional Burmese calendar was launched at the Pyu city-state of Sri Ksetra on 22 March 638?
Expanded just over 5 times and is long enough, all but one paragraph is adequately cited. However I cannot see any supporting statements for the hook in the article. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:14, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's right in the lead. The second sentence in the first paragraph. "The city-states were founded as part of the southward migration by the Tibeto-Burman-speaking Pyu, the earliest inhabitants of Burma of whom records are extant." It's cited to DGE Hall pp. 8-10. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 23:05, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
- The hook sounds fairly different, so perhaps hooks could be written to match closer. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:20, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Hmmm... It's worded differently but I don't think the meaning is different. Here's the direct quote from Hall: "Later Chinese writings, from the fourth century onwards, mention a people in central Burma, the P’iao, among whom ‘prince and minister, father and son, elder and younger each have their order of precedence’. By Chinese standards a civilized people, it would seem. These were the Pyu, the ruins of whose capital at Old Prome, Śrī Ksetra or ‘Field of Glory’, with its massive circular city walls and traces of broad moats, can still be seen. The Pyu were the earliest inhabitants of Burma of whom records are extant." The preceding paragraphs speak of the first known civilization in Burma. Anyway, I've replaced the word "states" with "city-states". Hopefully, it's closer.
- I've also suggested an alternative. It's cited in the body under the section of Sri Ksetra. I prefer the original hook. Thanks.
- I suppose I can let this one through. letting cite-state = civilization as a synthesis permitted. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:14, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
- The hook sounds fairly different, so perhaps hooks could be written to match closer. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:20, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Considerable unquoted verbatim copying of sources. See for example this and this. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:22, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
- The passages were cited but I understand the copyright violation aspect. I have rewritten the passages or put them in quotes with proper attribution to the author. Please review again. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 18:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
- If Nikkimaria is happy with the non-close paraphrasing, I would apply the green tick. However in the first detector report starting with "the adoption of indian concepts" ... "below" there are 47 duplicated words, so at least this should be rewritten. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:00, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's inside the quotes, and attributed to the author: According to historian Cooler, "the adoption of Indian concepts of city planning incorporated a belief in the efficacy of the world axis that connects the centermost point in a properly constructed Mandala city with the city of the Gods above (Tavatimsa heaven) in order to assure prosperity throughout the kingdom below".[27] Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 01:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
Substantial close-paraphrasing remains:
- It's inside the quotes, and attributed to the author: According to historian Cooler, "the adoption of Indian concepts of city planning incorporated a belief in the efficacy of the world axis that connects the centermost point in a properly constructed Mandala city with the city of the Gods above (Tavatimsa heaven) in order to assure prosperity throughout the kingdom below".[27] Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 01:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- If Nikkimaria is happy with the non-close paraphrasing, I would apply the green tick. However in the first detector report starting with "the adoption of indian concepts" ... "below" there are 47 duplicated words, so at least this should be rewritten. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:00, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
- article: "in the late 9th century coins were not used again in the burmese kingdoms until the"
- source: "in the late 9 th century coins were not used again in the burmese kingdoms until the"
- article: "the earliest type of these (non inscribed) coins depicts a conch on one side and a srivatsa"
- source: "the earliest type of these (uninscribed) coins depicts a conch on one side and a srivatsa a door like symbol associated with good fortune on the"
- The piece stated above inside the quote would be much better rephrased outside of quotes; it's a very long and unnecessary direct quote in my view. Harrias talk 12:38, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- This is a nice article, involving a lot of quality scholarly effort. The issues cited above are largely resolved (I made a few edits). However, the creator has not edited it since 24 November, and looking at the Google Books snippets for Aung-Thwin, Michael (2005). The mists of Rāmañña: The Legend that was Lower Burma, I found another instance of too-close wording. Specifically, the word string "and a pagoda at each of the four corners. It also has curving gateways, such as those found at Halin and Beikthano" is verbatim from that source. That is not a situation where there is only one way to express the information, so regretfully I conclude that this nomination is doomed. --Orlady (talk) 18:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)