Template:Did you know nominations/Quaid-e-Azam tourist lodge, Barsala

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Montanabw^(talk) 21:51, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Quaid-e-Azam tourist lodge, Barsala

(

)

... that the Barsala tourist lodge in Azad Kashmir hosted the founder of Pakstan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah in 1944?

Created by Faizan (talk). Self nominated at 07:28, 2 July 2014 (UTC).

The article presently has only 946 characters of readable prose size. It needs at least 554 more characters to fulfill the length criteria.--Skr15081997 (talk) 10:49, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

The issue has been addressed, the article has 1682 characters now. Fai zan 14:07, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

A complete review is needed. Fai zan 06:09, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

(My first review; experienced reviewers requested) This article is very short, but does meet the minimum requirement for characters now. At first I thought it to be a stub, but it has the required length and according to The "Croughton-London" rule a small article can be sufficient for a simple subject. The hook is acceptable and the map is appropriate for this location. A proper image would improve the article. (update: OP reports that no image is available.) One sentence "The particular chair is still present in this lodge on which Mohammad Ali Jinnah was seated." is almost identical to that used on this page "That particular chair is still present in this lodge on which Quaid was seated." The OP should re-word to avoid plagiarism conflict. Kyle^(talk) 17:54, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Tried to paraphrase to: "Jinnah was seated on a chair and that chair is still preserved and is present in the lodge." Is this version OK? Fai zan 19:24, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

I like the changes. After the improvement, everything looks ok to me. My primary concern with this article is notability. The limited references are mostly advertisement and tourism related. This article seems to lean on a relationship with the founder - but according to rules for notability a relationship with a notable person is not sufficient grounds for notability. "An organization is not notable merely because a notable person or event was associated with it." In this case the details in this article may be more suitable for addition to an article about the town or region instead. I would like to see other editors comments after a full review. Kyle^(talk) 04:39, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

The lodge is not merely notable because of its relation with the founder of Pakistan, but it has been named as the "Cultural Heritage Site in Azad Kashmir", because of this relationship. The heritage site, like rest of the Pakistani sites remains neglected and uncovered by media, etc. So I had to rely on mostly tourism sources. It is a heritage site, not an organization. So you are saying that you are not going to let it go and we should go after other reviewers? I understand because this is your first review, but you ought to decide. Otherwise we can get a question mark inviting others. Fai zan 14:42, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Please return to your first reference and look at it carefully. Does it clearly cite "Cultural Heritage Site in Azad Kashmir?" I have opened and read the references looking for this citation. Can you help me clarify this please? Kyle^(talk) 15:43, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Checking in. Please clarify the citation for "Cultural Heritage Site in Azad Kashmir" so I can green check mark your entry! I want to help you get this completed ASAP. Kyle^(talk) 00:18, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Kyle, I asked it on the concerned talk page, and will quote Samar's note on this:

From Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pakistan/Pakistani Cultural Heritage Edit Drive.

The reviewer of the DYK nomination of Quaid-e-Azam tourist lodge, Barsala has demanded a reference for verifying the claim of it being declared as a cultural heritage site. I cannot find the reference, can someone help? Why was this entry added to the list if there was no verification? Fai zan 06:36, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

@Faizan:, this is a strange question to me. You will not find a "reference or online source" for most of the sites explicitly mentioning that they are "cultural heritage sites". These sites are in the lists because they have a cultural significance arising from their status as an archaeological site, historical site, landmark, monument, shrine, fort, government building, etc. You can clearly see the reference in the list for this site: its the the official AJK Government webiste. It is clearly mentioned there that this is a historical tourist lodge built during the Dogra rule. If a historical site is not of cultural significance then I don't know what is. Please try to understand the scope of the cultural heritage sites and do your research.

Please also note a) "Cultural heritage sites" is not a term, it has not been defined by any Government department or other body. Any site with cultural significance is a cultural heritage site. b) Pakistan has no formal record with the government of these sites, unlike in Europe (or other countries where most editors are from) we have only a handful of sites protected by the Government out of thousands. Rest are either not recorded, or are recorded but not protected. It is not possible in our case to provide an "official list" like those countries have. Samar ^Talk 09:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I hope that this answered your question? Fai zan 14:52, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Moreover, I removed this term from the article and there is no mention of cultural heritage significance in hook, so it will not be affected. Fai zan 14:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

More reviewers needed. I was very happy to hear about a possible citation for "Cultural Heritage Site in Azad Kashmir", for this would clear up the question about notability. Now that this citation has not been found and the information removed from the article-our concerns about notability remain. Please add citations to improve the notability status for this article. At this point most of the citations are related to tourism and I fear the article is approaching spam status (core policy violation.) I want to help and I have searched for additional references myself but have failed to find any suitable for addition. Kyle^(talk) 15:35, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Another review needed. Fai zan 15:43, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I am approving this based upon precedence. You will find on todays DYK, the following article: Trout_Inn,_Lechlade. This article is in most respects identical in tourism content and notability to the article under review. I am approving the DYK based upon the Trout Inn example. I have continued to solicit alternate reviewers without success. Hopefully this approval will conclude the initial round of discussion and promote additional eyes on the subject. Kyle^(talk) 23:19, 11 July 2014 (UTC)