- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Kingsif (talk) 14:34, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Rosa von Milde
Rosa von Milde in 1857
- ... that Rosa Agthe (pictured) and her future husband performed as Elsa and Telramund in the world premiere of Wagner's Lohengrin in Weimar in 1850, conducted by Franz Liszt? Source: [1]
- Reviewed: He Who Gets Slapped
- Comment: not sure what to do about her name, - they married a year after the premiere, and the image was taken 6 more years later
Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 20:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC).
- Comment Gerda Arendt I would suggest adding her maiden name to the description of the image on Wikimedia commons. It would be useful there anyway in case anyone is searching for an image under her other name.4meter4 (talk) 13:35, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
- Comment:Gerda Arendt Can you find a different link for the hook, because google refuses to show the book. KittenKlub (talk) 09:49, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
- KittenKlub, two books are given in the article, can you perhaps look at the other? I changed .de to .com here, is that perhaps better? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:18, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: The .com works (roll eyes) because I can now read it. With .de, it told me page not found, limit reached. Anyway, I have reviewed another article instead. KittenKlub (talk) 09:24, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- I don't understand. You could have used this review before completing. Can you now finish, please, and store for your next qpq need, rather than making someone else begin all over for a foreign language hook? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- I'm busy on an article right now, but I'll try to do it later today... KittenKlub (talk) 09:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- No rush for a 19th-century event ;) - please please don't write below the last line, - it ruins formatting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:53, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- I'm busy on an article right now, but I'll try to do it later today... KittenKlub (talk) 09:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- I don't understand. You could have used this review before completing. Can you now finish, please, and store for your next qpq need, rather than making someone else begin all over for a foreign language hook? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: The .com works (roll eyes) because I can now read it. With .de, it told me page not found, limit reached. Anyway, I have reviewed another article instead. KittenKlub (talk) 09:24, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- KittenKlub, two books are given in the article, can you perhaps look at the other? I changed .de to .com here, is that perhaps better? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:18, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt Hook is correct. Length is correct. The article is well referenced. Oxford shows only a fragment, but the other parts are double referenced, so there are no problems there. QPQ has been performed. The article has passed. KittenKlub (talk) 10:06, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Before promoting this, how much of the hook is needed? Because I would have stopped after "Lohengrin", but you add three extra facts after this point that all feel unnecessary. I am assuming that the interesting part - the part I find interesting, at least - is that a couple played in an opera together. Presumably for the opera fanatics the parts they played have significance, too. Being the world premiere of that opera is a bonus intrigue (fact #2). But the world premiere part is not the main point, so we don't need three extra details (5 facts in a hook!) about it, unless there is a significance to the location, year, and conductor that isn't just interesting by itself – and only for people who already know opera, at that, but we know that – but has an effect on the significance of a couple acting together. Like, was it unusual for couples to perform together in Weimar in 1850 or did Liszt not usually conduct couples? If there's no extra significance, then interested parties can easily look up the details of the premiere (like clicking the hook link) for themselves. Kingsif (talk) 14:00, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
- You are right in assuming that some of the facts are more for those who already know a bit, intentionally so. It is less known that Lohengrin, one of the perhaps top 50 operas ever, was premiered in Weimar, and not even every opera lover will know that it was conducted by Franz Liszt who would eventually become the composer's father-in-law, and who already promoted Wagner's works which others hated at the time. Drop the year if you have to, but absolutely leave the conductor, and better the place. - We can provide a little education on the side, I think, not only tabloid who-with-whom facts. Opera lovers will know and enjoy that Elsa and Telramund are on opposite sides of the story, Elsa marrying Lohengrin, and Telramund (the villain in the plot) making her question her bridegroom. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Before promoting this, how much of the hook is needed? Because I would have stopped after "Lohengrin", but you add three extra facts after this point that all feel unnecessary. I am assuming that the interesting part - the part I find interesting, at least - is that a couple played in an opera together. Presumably for the opera fanatics the parts they played have significance, too. Being the world premiere of that opera is a bonus intrigue (fact #2). But the world premiere part is not the main point, so we don't need three extra details (5 facts in a hook!) about it, unless there is a significance to the location, year, and conductor that isn't just interesting by itself – and only for people who already know opera, at that, but we know that – but has an effect on the significance of a couple acting together. Like, was it unusual for couples to perform together in Weimar in 1850 or did Liszt not usually conduct couples? If there's no extra significance, then interested parties can easily look up the details of the premiere (like clicking the hook link) for themselves. Kingsif (talk) 14:00, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
- Both those facts are more about "world premiere of Lohengrin", then – Liszt had a relationship with the composer, and such popular operas are not usually premiered in Weimar? I won't push it, but I do think good hooks know when to end (if you're familiar with that idiom). Kingsif (talk) 14:34, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
