Template:Did you know nominations/Ruth Scott Miller

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 05:22, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Ruth Scott Miller

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• ... that Ruth Scott Miller was the first female music critic for the Chicago Tribune, writing for the paper from September 1920 to May 1921? Source: Hannah Edgar, “Searching for Ms. Miller”, Chicago Magazine, November 19, 2020.
  • Reviewed: exempt

Created by Treesiati (talk). Self-nominated at 21:44, 23 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Ruth Scott Miller; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• @Treesiati: Hi, reviewing now; I made some copyedits while reading. New, long enough. The tag about primary sources does need remedying; for example, the claim "Her last contribution to the Ladies’ Home Journal was in 1927" can't really be cited using the article itself, even if it's true - either a secondary source should be found, or (less preferably) the claim should be modified to something like "She contributed to Ladies' Home Journal until at least 1927". Also, I think it would help other editors to use citation templates, but that's not a requirement for DYK; however, please do include the author's name in every reference when possible, even for Miller herself. A few other general things or points of fact:

• Where are we citing her date of birth?
• Can St. Veit be linked to somewhere? On google I'm only finding places in Austria, not Germany
• "The editors of the Chicago Tribune noted that Miller came to their attention through her articles in the Saturday Evening Post" - wait, which did she write for first, the Post or the Tribune?
• Change curly quotes to straight quotes
• The Hannah Edgar article seems interesting; you could incorporate some more biographical details from it (husband's early death, later life in Virginia, writing style, etc.)

• The proposed hook is not very interesting, but you can probably create some good hook suggestions from her published opinions. No QPQ needed; second nomination. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 03:28, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing the article and many, many apologies for not responding sooner. Somehow, the reviews were lost in my messages. I worked to upgrade the article by addressing questions and concerns and adding references.

- reference to the birthdate added (from death certificate)

- St. Veit (now Sankt Veit--should that be changed?) is in Austria, yes.

- curly quotes changed to straight

- added a bit more from Hannah Edgar's biographical publication

If it's not too late, could the hook be: ALT1: ... that Ruth Scott Miller, the first female music critic for the Chicago Tribune, claimed she got her job because the Tribune "wanted a critic who could write for the masses and not for 'four or five thousand freak music lovers'"?

Treesiati (talk) 16:33, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Hameltion, I've moved this response to your concerns from the article talk page to here. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

(Thanks Eddie) @Treesiati: No worries, there's no deadline here, and nice start. The primary sources tag remains a concern, however. "During her tenure with the Chicago Tribune, she reviewed symphony and opera performances, as well as recitals by local musicians", "Her emphasis in the Saturday Evening Post was on the music business" - these two sentences, important transitions, are uncited and seem to be gleaned from her publication history, which could be OK but there's no comprehensive bibliography referenced. I realize this subject is not very widely covered, but these sentences need citations.

Additionally, the timeline remains unclear - she still seems (per ref "Our Orchestral Americanization") to have written for the Evening Post before the Tribune. This is only partially reflected in the article. This is the kind of thing that non-Miller (i.e. secondary) sources would help with.

Just for my help, how are you accessing these 1920s articles (online, print, etc.)?

As for the hook, your second one feels too long (and is over 200+ chars). It's interesting and could be condensed, and there are definitely other possible hooks to propose. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 13:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks once again for your suggestions,@Hameltion:

I deleted the two sentences in question. There are the general studies and bibliographies of women in music that I referenced, but they aren't help in pinning down Ruth Scott Miller, which is what Hannah Edgar talks about in her own article. I think they aren't really necessary sentences.

She did write for the Post before the Tribune, which I tried to clarify by altering the sentence. She was a contributing essayist to the Post, but she was still the first female music reviewer on staff for the Chicago Tribune.

The 1920s articles from the Post and Ladies' Home Journal come from two sources: 1) Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature (print versions in the library), and 2) back issues in print of the publications in the library. Chicago Tribune can be accessed through Newspapers.com.

The hook could be changed again to:

ALT2: ... that Ruth Scott Miller, the first female music critic for the Chicago Tribune, claimed she would "write for the masses"?

That hook points to Edgar (seconary source) which identifies her as the first female critic, but also incorporates some of Miller's voice. Treesiati (talk) 15:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Treesiati: Thanks for the edits. I'll approve shortly - just noting for future reference that DYK nomination discussion should go here on the nomination page, not the article talk page. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 16:35, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Treesiati: Removing those sentences was probably the best call, I've taken the tag off the article. Other clarifications good too. If you find the time, the quotation marks need cleaning up again (remove single quotes and curly quotes). I realized we can shorten ALT1 to an appropriate length, but keep more conte(n/x)t than ALT2:

• ALT1a: ... that Ruth Scott Miller, the first female music critic for the Chicago Tribune, said she was hired to "write for the masses and not for 'four or five thousand freak music lovers'"?

January 1925 issue of Ladies Home Journal, supporting the quotation, seems to be one of the offline-only sources. Happy to give now. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 16:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)