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Template:Did you know nominations/Siege of Trichinopoly (1743)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:37, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

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Siege of Trichinopoly (1743)

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Tiruchirapalli Rock Fort.
Tiruchirapalli Rock Fort.

Created/expanded by Omer123hussain (talk). Self-nominated at 12:05, 13 August 2020 (UTC).

  • The hooks need copyediting for English grammar. Apparently the article does too. The first paragraph of the lead contains partial sentences like: Deccan region which comprises of six Mughal Empire governorates-(Subahs) Khandesh, Bijapur, Malwa, Aurangabad, Hyderabad and Carnatic of which Nizam-ul-Mulk-(also known as Nizam) was the legitimate Viceroy. and grammatical errors like: After about six months of siege, the Nizam successfully make Murari Rao to surrender. Please apply at WP:GOCE. Yoninah (talk) 23:27, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Fixed as per Yoninah advises and suggestion and others corrections :)Omer123hussain (talk) 09:42, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
  • The hook is better but the article really needs a copyedit. You are misusing words like "lead" (should be "led") and "comprises" (should be "consists of"). You have this ridiculously run-on sentence in the lead: However during the last years of Nizam and after his death in 1748, the Deccan became the center of a power struggle which had lead to a series of complicated three Carnatic Wars (1746-1763), claimant of Nizam succession were among the Nizam’s own sons and grandsons-Nasir Jung, Salabat Jung and Muzaffar Jung, between the Maratha Peshwa-Raghoji I Bhonsle and Balaji Bajirao, and for the title of the Nawab of Arcot between Chanda Saheb and Muhammed Ali Khan Wallajah, and between the legitimate ruler of Mysore Krishnaraja and DeFacto Hyder Ali, eventually they all were supported by either Frenchman Joseph François Dupleix or the British Robert Clive though they were each other's rival and had increased there interference and influence among the local rulers and there opponents. I glanced at the rest of the article and see more grammatical errors. Please apply at WP:GOCE for a complete copyedit. Yoninah (talk) 10:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Yoninah, WP:GOCE is done hope we can proceed now for DYK :)Omer123hussain (talk) 06:03, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Really? WP:GOCE doesn't work that fast. The copyedit is not very good. There are still long, run-on sentences and incorrect grammar. Normally I would do it myself, but I don't have the time. Yoninah (talk) 11:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I thought so :), as its not such a big article, I hope it may not be a big deal for you to c/e, so hope to work with you and appreciate you kind gesture. :)Omer123hussain (talk) 14:36, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Eern, I didn't say I was completely done. I said I was going to look at it again today. Can I Log In (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

This is just a copyedit of the hook for grammar corrections. I haven't done any kind of review, not even on the hook. SpinningSpark 14:08, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

  • OK, I tried to edit the article, but there are still unclear parts. First I removed all the extraneous historical information from the lead, which should just focus on the article subject, not the whole pre- and post-history of the region. But you also have information here about the 1741 siege, and briefly mention the 1751 siege, which makes me wonder if the page name should be changed to Sieges of Trichinopoly and the sections reorganized accordingly? There is little enough information on the page Siege of Trichinopoly (1751–52) that it can't be re-incorporated into this article.
  • There are a few sentences whose meaning I can't figure out. These run-on sentences should be broken up into individual sentences. Also, you are writing about something that happened hundreds of years ago, so please use past-tense verbs:
  • They reached Golkondain March 1744 and the same year Khwaja Abdullah died on the eve of his departure from Golkonda; thus the Nizam appointed Anwaruddin Khan as regent while Saadatullah Khan II, being an infant, as the Nawab of the Carnatic he was assassinated by Muruza Ali Khan in 1744,[21]:99 and in 1749 when Anwaruddin Khan died in the Battle of Ambur, his son and deputy governor Muhammed Ali Khan Wallajah was dethroned by Chanda Sahib, he became a refuge in Trichinopoly where he set up his base.
  • These were a series of wars fought between 1746 and 1763 among the Maratha: Peshwas, contended[clarification needed] by Raghoji I Bhonsale vs. Balaji Bajirao; the Nizam of Hyderabad, contended[clarification needed] by Nasir Jung and Muzaffar Jung; the Nawab of Arcot, contended[clarification needed] by Chanda Saheb and Muhammed Ali Khan Wallajah; and Robert Clive of England vs Joseph François Dupleix of France who, while opposing each other, aligned with opposing local princes. They all change support system between one another during and after war.
  • I also broke a paragraph in half under "1941 siege" and need a citation to verify the first paragraph.
  • Yoninah (talk) 18:45, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
  • 1941 and 1943 sieges? Methinks you have time-slipped 200 years.
  • I don't think changing the heading of the "background" section to "1741 siege" is a good idea in any case. It is more about the conflict as a whole and the heading confuses the topic of the article. SpinningSpark 21:29, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
  • So be my guest and you try to edit this. Yoninah (talk) 21:32, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
  • siege of 41 and 52 are different articles, fought by other rulers, and siege of 52 is already part of Carnatic war so will be confused and it will complicate the subject.
  • will try to work on c/e of verbs as recommended above.
  • let me know if any other corrections are required. :)-Omer123hussain (talk) 22:20, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Yup, we have a broken article, even though I marked as done. Can I Log In (talk) 18:05, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
  • @Can I Log In: so what's going on here? I listed some problem sentences above that need to be taken care of. Is anyone going to do any more editing on this, or should we close it as unsuccessful? Yoninah (talk) 18:53, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
OK so let me summarize what has happened. This revision was what I saw when accepting the GOCE request; the major flaws I found are the following,
  • I see-(hyphens before parenthesies)
  • Phrases that are confusing, like this one
Or this: On 11 October 1724, Nizam defeated Mubariz Khan-(the then Mughal governor of Hyderabad and an imperial officer) to establish autonomy over the Deccan region, named the region as Hyderabad Deccan, and started what came to be known as the Asaf Jahi dynasty.
  • "Snakes", and apprently run-on sentences

The article as of 19:49, 30 August 2020 (UTC) has got to address nearly all of your issues; if not, shocking but I'll do more, but there is the barrier of the confusing phrases which is what is putting this at a standstill. If I have to go up to Omer123hussain(en-5?)every time and ask for clarification on the intended meaning of a phrase only he can understand, I'll opt-out. Let's hold off failing this for 7 days and see what happens. Can I Log In (talk) 19:49, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

  • How about asking Omer123hussain to stop editing the article until you're finished? Yoninah (talk) 21:33, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Yoninah and Can I Log In well its okay with me to hold editing until c/e is completed, meanwhile you can ask me for any help. :)-Omer123hussain (talk) 04:33, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
  • It's not a problem. The only problem here you pointed out is These were a series of wars fought between 1746 and 1763 among the Maratha:, and followed by a huge snake that I've never gotten in slither.io.
Anyways, that snake has been cut, so this DYK better pass. My head will explode if there are further issues with the prose (other than with the snake I just "cut". Can I Log In (talk) 23:17, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your work, Can I Log In, but the last paragraph is still ungrammatical; it's completely unclear what "first", "second" or "third" is referring to—a war? a conflict? a disagreement? And the last line makes no sense at all.
  • Additionally, this overlong Aftermath section is really unnecessary; it should end after the second paragraph and all this information about the 1751 siege should be moved to that article to improve it. Then we too can move on.
  • @Omer123hussain: I would also like to note that this constant re-editing of your article shows that your next nomination must be sent to WP:GOCE before anyone at DYK even tries to review it. Yoninah (talk) 20:01, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you @Can I Log In: and @Yoninah: for your efforts. It happens while expanding article when I did not removed existing stuff to avoid edit-warring.Omer123hussain (talk) 04:53, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah:, In section Aftermath, i hope following will be okay “The opponent involved in these wars were; Robert Clive of England versus Joseph François Dupleix of France; both were opposed to the other but were aligned with opposing local princes. Whether Chanda Sahib or Muhammed Ali Khan Wallajah would become the Nawab of Arcot and whether Nasir Jung or Muzaffar Jung would be the successor to become the Nizam of Hyderabad. In the process to be the Peshwa of Maratha empire, contended by Raghoji I Bhonsale and Balaji Bajirao. They all change support system between one another during and after war to become the successor of local rulers.-:) Omer123hussain (talk) 20:33, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Omer123hussain: sorry, but none of what you just wrote makes sense in English. Please get some help. Yoninah (talk) 20:42, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah:,So better we remove that sentence as it will enlarge the section if we explain it, any way we had WL Carnatic wars.
  • @Omer123hussain: Fine with me. I deleted the paragraph and moved things around to follow chronological order. If you are finished editing this, I can finish the review. Yoninah (talk) 12:35, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Starting review. You nominated this on August 13 as a 5x expansion. The expansion must be done within 7 days of nomination. If we IAR and give you an 8-day period, the last edit on August 4 shows a character count of 3,530 characters. At present, the character count is 8,830 characters, which is a 2.5x expansion. Even if we grant you a 9-day period, the character count before you began expansion on August 4 was 2,990 characters, which makes it less than a 3x expansion.
  • If you are unable to expand this 5x, another option would be to bring it to GA status and then nominate it again here at DYK. Yoninah (talk) 18:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: thanks for your advice and guidance, I will nominate it for GA, then we can proceed for DYK. If we expand, it’s becoming complicated. Hope GA will not be issue, because already we had done extensive c/e. :)-Omer123hussain (talk) 21:04, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Marking for closure. Yoninah (talk) 21:30, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Article has received a GA icon, so re-opening this template to continue with the review as a GA nomination. Yoninah (talk) 13:31, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Re-nominated within 7 days of receiving GA icon. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. ALT0a hook ref verified and cited inline. However, I would remove the sea of blue from the hook this way:
  • ALT0b: ... that the Maratha Empire's direct rule came to an end in the Carnatic region when Murari Rao surrendered to Nizam I after the 1743 siege of Trichinopoly?
  • Images in article are freely licensed. I don't think the image adds anything to this hook. No QPQ needed for nominator with less than 5 DYK credits. ALT0b good to go. Yoninah (talk) 13:45, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
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