- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Jack Frost (talk) 12:05, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
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Tammy Wynette
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that Tammy Wynette was allegedly kidnapped at gunpoint in her car?Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-country-lists/horses-guns-and-drugs-country-musics-10-wildest-stories-199144/tammy-wynette-kidnapped-at-nashville-mall-199189/ , https://theboot.com/tammy-wynette-abduction/- ALT1:
... that Tammy Wynette's alleged kidnapping has been rumored to be a cover up that Tammy did to hide that George Richey beat her?Source: Same as hook 0. - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ann Beaglehole
- ALT1:
Improved to Good Article status by ChrisTofu11961 (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 14:37, 21 October 2022 (UTC).
Promoted to GA on 10/15. Long enough. Earwig is showing a high probability of copyvio/plagiarism issues (expecially with the New York Times obit) that need to be addressed. Alt0 is interesting and short enough and supported by inline citations. I have stricken the alt1 hook as it is on its face based on a "rumor" that Wynette's kidnapping was falsified to cover up spousal abuse; such "rumors" of illegal activity (false kidnapping report and spousal abuse) are not appropriate for the Main Page. The copyvio/plagiarism issues need to be addressed before alt0 can be approved. Cbl62 (talk) 18:51, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Cbl62: I ran earwig through the article and found that essentially all of the possible copyvios were basically either quotes or album names that earwig happened to read as a possible copyvio. So there isn't a major copyvio problem. Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Onegreatjoke: Earwig was not working well for me yesterday but today it is. You are correct in large part, but not entirely. For example:
- The article states that Wynette died "while sleeping on her couch at her Nashville, Tennessee home." This exact phrasing is taken from the CMT piece and is not in quote marks.
- In addition, there are a quite a few long-ish quotes. I am a supporter of the use of quotes where appropriate. I simply ask you to have a second look with an eye to whether (a) they are really necessary as direct quotes, or (b) whether some could be shortened or paraphrased. Here are some examples:
- "established Ms. Wynette in the role of a long-suffering but determinedly loyal wife, holding the family together even when her husband strayed. Her voice had a husky center, with melancholy balanced by determination; she sounded like an Everywoman with unexpected reserves of strength and affection." (from The New York Times obit)
- "In her music, love was never free and the human condition was pain, struggle, compromise," Drehle stated. "Wynette's voice -- raw, broken, sad, knowing -- prophesied from a million jukeboxes and push-button AM car radios. The First Lady of Country, she came to be known for her string of hurtin' hits." (from The Washington Post obit)
- "the standard-bearer of an elaborately orchestrated Nashville sound, with pedal steel guitars underlined by strings and backup choruses." (from The New York Times)
- " "When you're someone like that, you've kind of rehearsed your life. It's a story that's been told. She's written the songs, she'd done so many interviews. Is it true, is it made up, how much is real?" (from the NPR piece)
- There are also a number of long quotes from Wynette's famous "stand by your man" exchange with Hillary Clinton. Given the historic nature of the exchange, I think those direct quotes are historically significant and appropriate. Cbl62 (talk) 18:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Cbl62: Ok, I've shortened the four quotes you've highlighted. Is the article good now? Onegreatjoke (talk) 02:09, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Onegreatjoke: I like that you shortened her music sound. The article mentions Nashville Sound several times with internal page links to the sound. Having elements, like the steel guitar, just made the article longer. It was unnecessary. I also wonder if the 'Stand by Your Man' controversy should be shortened, and that content moved to a section on the separate Stand by Your Man page. Oddly, it barely receives a mention there. P37307 (talk) 02:32, 23 October 2022 (UTC).
- @Cbl62: Ok, I've shortened the four quotes you've highlighted. Is the article good now? Onegreatjoke (talk) 02:09, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Onegreatjoke: Earwig was not working well for me yesterday but today it is. You are correct in large part, but not entirely. For example:
Thanks. Good to go. Cbl62 (talk) 04:01, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Onegreatjoke and Cbl62:
I'm not inclined to run a hook that derives its hookiness solely from an eye-popping crime, much less one against a living person, much less a high-profile country star with mountains of existing reputation outside this incident. The "allegedly" is similarly quite dicey. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 01:04, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I understand your concern and found alt1 even more inappropriate as it recited a "rumor" that the kidnapping was faked to cover up spousal abuse. If the nominator wishes to proffer another hook from Wynette's rich life, I'd be willing to have another look. Cbl62 (talk) 01:10, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Onegreatjoke and Cbl62:
- @Cbl62: I ran earwig through the article and found that essentially all of the possible copyvios were basically either quotes or album names that earwig happened to read as a possible copyvio. So there isn't a major copyvio problem. Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
@Cbl62: how about "... that Tammy Wynette once toured on a bus labeled "Mr. and Mrs. Country Music" with her husband George Jones?" Onegreatjoke (talk) 23:04, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- https://www.biography.com/news/tammy-wynette-george-jones-relationship-marriage-divorce forgot the source. Onegreatjoke (talk) 23:05, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- That works. It's short enough. It's supported in the article with an in-line citation. And it's and interesting tidbit, i.e., that two of country music's all-time legends were married and toured together. I also struck the initial hook in light of Theleekycauldron's concerns. Cbl62 (talk) 23:17, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- There's an extensive thread on WP:RSN which makes me cautious about accepting biography.com as a WP:RS. I'm actually a little surprised it was accepted in a GA review. On the other hand, I did find this article in The Tennessean which verifies the same fact, so I think we're good (but it should be updated in the article). -- RoySmith (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- Added the citation for it. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:55, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
- There's an extensive thread on WP:RSN which makes me cautious about accepting biography.com as a WP:RS. I'm actually a little surprised it was accepted in a GA review. On the other hand, I did find this article in The Tennessean which verifies the same fact, so I think we're good (but it should be updated in the article). -- RoySmith (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2022 (UTC)